Steve Sells

As I had stated many times before, Its best to use a known steel. Especially when you have a client ordering them. it would be a shame to have a difference in steel in one of your saw blades, and kill your business Learning with salvage is fine, but have some respect for yourself, and your paying clients, and use known solid metals, it will go farther than any apology for a bad blade.

even tho I edited M-brothers post, I want to make this very clear, That is NOT my blade. I would give credit to its maker and if/when I find out I will add the proper credits to whom it is due. I thought is the best example so far of combining bronze and steel in a blade. I have no photos of my past bronze/steel works, so I used one I had of another, I was negligent in not saving this photo under the name of the maker, as I normally do for later reference.

Our waiting is now over. This morning my daughter gave birth to a little girl. And both are resting well. She comes in at 7# 6 oz. and 20 inches long with a full head of hair. So I would like to present to my extended family here, Madison Catherine, my second grand child. NO photo yet, as they are a bit prune textured at this stage :)

combat? I consider the preparation of food less violent than that, but I suppose from the foods point of view... they never stood a chance.

Most the time I do not wear gloves. Having said that I always wear both gloved when forge welding, because I have been burned too many times at the junction of thumb and forefinger. A lot of the times only left (holding) hand is gloved.

look at advanced annealing methods in the knife section, its one of the sticky's

like this? pattern welded blade with bronze - Blacksmith Photo Gallery

[Finnr] Bone and antler always attract attention [steve sells] sure ya can rich, give it to me [lobodag] unless its burl , most sales are stag, elk, ivory or dessert ironwood [brucegodlesky] I delivered a walnut handled hunter last week that weighed 2 1/2 oz. 4 1.2" blade and SS furniture [garey] use some blood wood and snake wood. and a little ebony [steve sells] maybe a pinjke for the site ?> LOL [Rich Hale] Not an open option not long back I took a finished knfe with walnut and cut and ground the handle off and am going to redo it with ironwood [steve sells] garey even seen tiger myrtle ? from OZ ? [Rich Hale] Garey if I make a snakewood knife it sells the first show...just bought a nice piece good for at least four knives [steve sells] 10:45 pm: like the snakewood, but the colors dont fade, and most the wood is usable, rather than less than 1/3 as with snake wood [brucegodlesky] To paraphrase another maker, I'll put anything on a knife handle as long as its maple [steve sells] this color lasts, and cost so much less too [garey] havce used purple heart somke to. [brucegodlesky] nice stuff if you can keep it from splitting [steve sells] Less of a problem if you stabilize it first bruce. I once saw a figured purple heart, but when finished didn't look much different that normal grain purple heart [steve sells] 'due to no color variance [Finnr] ' I have a bunch of purple heart I need to use up' [garey] i have some BdeArc ( osage orange ) up in the loft of the shop been up there for 15 years [Rich Hale] I cut down a big mesquite tree a couple of years ago here..cut up quite a few blocks and dried them they do not have enough pattern for me to use [steve sells] also use it for knifes of course [garey] bet its so hard it wil throw sparks when cut. [steve sells] well rich thery is one good used for them, cook dinner [brucegodlesky] is mesquite oily? [Torin] I've got some Ipe I'm looking to try on a knife eventually. [Rich Hale] I saved alot fo wood for that and will likely toss these in or give them to one of the new folks that stop by, No it is fairly dry [brucegodlesky] : Ipe is a SA wood right? [jeremy k] 1 does manzanita wood look good? I know it's super hard though [Torin] Yep. Sometimes called Brazilian walnut. [Rich Hale] I have not seen it on knives J [Finnr] The root burls are gorgeous [Torin] Sands well though. [Finnr] make wonderful turnings [jeremy k] it's a brush type [jeremy k] 1 cut at dusk and you can see sparks from the chainsaw [Rich Hale] 1: Manzanita is a real tough shrub like bush that grows here beanches are small,,red in color maybe at the base of an old bush you could get a block or three [brucegodlesky] my favorite foreign wood is tambootie, African sandalwood [lobodag] would like some [Finnr] bad thing about using the root burls is they often have grown in rocks [jeremy k] I had a chunck a long time ago - don't know what ever happend to it -was about the size of a baseball in diameter [markb] Grows here as tree burls bring big bucks a lot of theft in gov. land [lobodag] the local turner save me there scrap [brucegodlesky] burls resemble mountain laurel burls? [jeremy k] small diamond willow I'd think would look good for scales [garey] hunting the extra batterys i bought for the digital camera today. getting ready for the ride tomorrow. [jeremy k] w/ a matching blade pattern [steve sells] Bruce how does that soft sandlkewood hold up as knife handles with out being stabilized? [brucegodlesky] its really oily so it works well [Rich Hale] JJ I got ran off a dirt road on a motorcycle years ago into a thcik growth of manzanita..from about 60 mph to zero in less than 20 feet dang that hurt [lobodag] oow [brucegodlesky] and smells great too [jeremy k] ouch [garey] how long were you stove up Rich? [brucegodlesky] Steve , only drawback is the price [lobodag] like how much? [Rich Hale] Don't remember [brucegodlesky] I paid $27 for 1/2 board foot [lobodag] of burl? [brucegodlesky] nope, just figured [garey] bet you didnt hop right out of bed the next morning. [lobodag] oh [Finnr] OUCH! [steve sells] I paid 230 for 30 x 2 x 6 inch for the fiddle walnut [Rich Hale] I pay up to $40 bucks for a nice piece of handle material unless its ivory [brucegodlesky] I needed it to match up with a PW blade [steve sells] that was crazy but I loved it somuch lol [Rich Hale] Garey not sure how I even got back to the truck [brucegodlesky] pretty stuff! [Rich Hale] Can I add a gun thing in here yet? [lobodag] I use up all small pieces on my folders, HOW thick can a pc be stabilised, and do you stabilize before or after shaping ? [Rich Hale] I do it before or buy it done most are sized so one knife can be made from it not sure what the max size is [Rich Hale] Garey I went to the gun range today [lobodag] who does your's Rich? [garey] : thickness depends on the porosity of the type of wood [brucegodlesky] I sometimes use Minwax wood hardner and keep the pieces about an inch thick humming sound when running [garey] open grain wood will take the preservative good so you can do thicker pieces [lobodag] red oak you can blow through [Rich Hale] I also look for dyed and double dyed woods [brucegodlesky] pm: yep, 10 minutes in the toaster oven to open the pores

[steve sells] welcome to the IFI Friday knife chat... or... Welcome to the Dark side..... [markb] I'm a mushroom [steve sells] : Lets start with a old stand by WOOD, how do you prepare it for the blade, so it wont warp, crack, split etc over time ? [jeremy k] before driing or after? before - wax the ends [steve sells] jeremy WHY do you wax on the ends ? [jeremy k] will keep the ends from checking while drying [brucegodlesky] you dunk them ends into the wax J? [jeremy k] or cracking [steve sells] ok, its not that I doubt you, I want ALL of us to have a REASON for doing a thing, not just "because" [jeremy k] bruce hot wax the ends [brucegodlesky] I use a crock pot to melt the wax [steve sells] if I have to teach a class for anything, Knives, red cross for nurses, or martial arts, I want people to understand why things are done, to understand the reasons, allows one to grow beyond what I can teach, it allows you to grow and do more on your own [brucegodlesky] If it's already started checking, nothing will stop it ya must be quick to get the ends covered. A friend of mine uses antifreeze [jeremy k] paint the ends of the wood [steve sells] how does that help,. this isnt a teaching thing, I want to know, as I never heard of using that. and I have NO clue.. LOL [brucegodlesky] seals the ends of the wood same as wax [steve sells] I never though of that, I wonder who that does it,m I understand the wax, and use it myself [brucegodlesky] well Steve, it doesn't really evaporate [jeremy k] like capping a straw - dries from the middle out? [Finnr] We waxing end grain? [lobodag] anyone do resin stabilization ? [brucegodlesky] thats why its best to debark it [steve sells] I know the wax does that, but cant fathom how the antifreeze does it too [garey] i use Nelsonite to stabilize [steve sells] we are getting there Lobo [brucegodlesky] it provides a moisture proof barrier [Finnr] PEG replaces the moisture in wood [markb] Nelsonite? [garey] it is a presertive [steve sells] for those that dodnt get here at the start, we are covering NON steel things for blades, starting with wood, and it preparation for long term uses. [Finnr] Whee! Wood I know! [steve sells] so first thing is drying the wood.... as green wood aint a good thing to use [markb] PEG? [garey] i will chime in when Steve get further along [Finnr] olyethelyne glycol [lobodag] did you start with directional cutting to inspire mosture controll ? [brucegodlesky] good for sealing wood and the neighbors cat [lobodag] or did i miss that? [steve sells] just finishing up the waxing of trhe ends, then Antifreez was mentions so I was exploring that [brucegodlesky] Stuff the sawmills use is wax base I believe [steve sells] OOO before garey gets too far [markb] 1 Where do you store wood to dry? [steve sells] 1 HOW do you tell when wood IS dry enough ? [Finnr] Anchor Seal is a common one at mills [steve sells] my basement, I have a de humidifyer [lobodag] burl needs to dry slow or be green treated, like the carvers do [Finnr] For green to dry I allow one year per inch plus [steve sells] with Garey and NOW riuch hale too, I thknk I can go to bed and let them Finish this topic with out me lol [lobodag] the amish store them in the basement for long periods prior to uses [steve sells] these guys know their stuff :up: [markb] I have 4" limb of black locast left out side a year what next [steve sells] outside in AZ is dif that outside in Hawaii [Finnr] three more years under cover drying unless you slice it thinner [steve sells] as I mentioned I vae humidity control for the basement shop [markb] Oregon wet winter dry summmer [steve sells] How do you test that its dry enough ? [Finnr] moisture meter [steve sells] please explain.. because I shouldn't have to do all the work here [Finnr] cute little electronic gadget that checks the moisture level [brucegodlesky] them guys have this nifty lil tool they jab the wood with [brucegodlesky] go on Finnr [Finnr] poke the pins in the wood and it measures moisture by resistance [lobodag] the new ones are digital surface testers [jeremy k] with little probes that stick in the endgrain and a electric charge between and measures reasistance? [Finnr] Most come with a table for different types of wood [markb] Surface will be different than center [Finnr] that'swhy I cut toslightly over finished sizebefore drying [lobodag] or dry kilns use weight samples fron each stag of drying [Finnr] I do wood better than I type [markb] Doses that depend on type of wood Llol [Finnr] Yes, there are tables with the meters [brucegodlesky] sure some wood holds moisture like a sponge [Finnr] Bass wood has a HUGE wet dry difference [lobodag] burns great green [Finnr] Carves great green! [brucegodlesky]whats the downside? [garey] i like to ues south american woods as they Are on the oily side and moisture content is low. [Finnr] I use a lot of cherry and walnut mostly because I get them free [lobodag] hows the burls? [brucegodlesky] Ya, the mills aren't cutting much walnut anymore [steve sells] I have a fiddle black walnut I have dryed enough, so its time to stabliize [garey] use a lot of cocobolo and bocoto [Finnr] The burls work up great from the cherry [steve sells] soon as the billet from hades is done I will get that [Finnr] LOL [brucegodlesky] ya, cherry burl is nice stuff [garey] some woods dont stabilize very well in a Vacuum to close grained or to oily [steve sells] HOW do we stablilize? 3 ways coat it, presureize to force into grain, opr MY favorite, vacume. what are the pros and cons? [garey] painting or coating wont penetrate deeply [brucegodlesky] I shouldn't start this , .... but at what point does stabilized wood cease to be wood and become plastic [Rich Hale] Bruce the wood I use smells like acrilic all the way through, so it is a toss up....however i have confidence in it after I sell it [Finnr] Tough question [brucegodlesky] wood or plastic [Rich Hale] The best places add the wood and product vaccuum all air out then pressurize [garey] plaswood. [steve sells] 2 atmospheres I have been told is plenty but is it ? I don know.... [lobodag] i hate repairing wood hidden tang handles [brucegodlesky] thats the thing about st wood that bothers me [lobodag] stabilized bone is alsao the best way too [Rich Hale] Bruce with the right tabilized methods I have used redwood for handles great looking stuff and it is hard to put a dent in it with a screwdriver,,,,gives me more options [garey] with my homebuilt rig i pull 25 " of mercury. 28" is considered perfict. [brucegodlesky] yes but at what point does it become a bone shaped piece of plastic [steve sells] rather that than a broken grip later [Rich Hale]Not sure there is an answer to that...it really comes down to what you like to use [steve sells] as long as it dont look cheap. [brucegodlesky] I understand all the positive things about stabilization [steve sells] : after the finish who can tell? its a matter of long term stability for me [brucegodlesky] but is it still wood/bone :-) [garey] i use a frig motor / pump set up for the vacume have a hose going into a mason jar full of preservitive [lobodag] at the point it looks the same feels the same and will give the customer long lasting use, even to the point of outlasting the blade [steve sells] embalmed but yes its still the item that we started with [markb] Some aging is considered character [Rich Hale] So then is an embalmed corpse still a corpse? lol [Finnr] Not having a knife come back for a handle repair is important to me [brucegodlesky] I understand all that and also agree to a point [lobodag] customers dont like 250.00 knives with bad handles [Rich Hale] A suggestion Bruce,,,, if you have not tried a piece of stabilized...order a black from K and G and try it on a knife for yourself... [brucegodlesky] I'm just being ther devils advocate [garey] and you can tell when antler is about saturated to the max. it quits bubbling and foaming [brucegodlesky] I've used it Rich and like micarta better lol [Rich Hale] : Who did your test piece Bruce? [brucegodlesky] I think it originally come from K&G [Rich Hale] Then it is the good stuff [brucegodlesky] 1 LTWright gave me a piece [steve sells] Bruce what is the use of devils advocate? no one said you have to stabilize it [Rich Hale] I am not sure I could seel a knife with micarta I have a different market [brucegodlesky] Personnally , I'm partial to stockmakers finishes [steve sells] rich told me he cant sell Walnut, but JJ and I have many clients asking for it.... [steve sells] clients can be fickle [Rich Hale] I have made a lot of rifle and pistol stocks and i love the hand rubbed look [steve sells] I had ONE order for green micarta [brucegodlesky] thats the ticket [steve sells] : in 15+ years of knife making [garey] i use more deer antler and cocobolo spacers than any thing else [brucegodlesky] : Ron Ryder got me started on them [Rich Hale] I cannot even give walnut away...... [steve sells] I need to build a cross bow, I will use many rifle techniques for that

[Rich Hale] I sell alot of odd but bright colored dyed woods...and sambar stag ivory and fancy ironwood [JJ] two preferr3ed handle materials here are elk and wlalnut. synthetics i can't sell. it's all a local thing. [leroyk] so jj how did you ever find all that walnut so cheap [Rich Hale] I have a blade here that I put some horn from a cape buffalo on...the blade steel had bad spots [steve sells] My last piece of antler is waiting to get mounted, BUT as I was shaping it, I got a grind through to the pith,. any ideas how to salvage that ? [leroyk] i would much rather use whitetail horn than elk [steve sells] my white tail is very solid, but this peice was selected for this knife by the client [JJ] gun stock maker b uys walnut trees, roots and all...dries it for years, cuts it 3" thick, kiln cries aggain . what they cut out as not needed for a $3000 sto ck, might have plenty for 3 or 4 kniv es left on the off cut. [Rich Hale] Use some sanding dust fro the same kind of antler and super glue [leroyk] you might try soak the pith with epoxy to harden it [jimmy seale] well leroy that here about like the endangered blacktailed jack a lope [steve sells] I have a tine I can grind down... from same as be brought me a 14inch or so long section. [Rich Hale] That along with zip kicker and you can grind and finish in seconds puy a shoe box or something under the grinder to catch the dust [steve sells] I was thinking of my slow set super glue to stabilise, the top coat of Rich's idea is a good one [JJ] 10:53 pm: zip kicker? [steve sells] I will use new bet too Rich DUH lol [leroyk] 1 well i am lucky i live wher white tail are all over [steve sells] here too Leroy [Rich Hale] Spray that sets up the super glue before you can walk over to the grinder [steve sells] but this antler is Sun bleach white [jimmy seale] well leroy- west texas here..... [steve sells] My super glue I use is slow set, takes 30 seconds [JJ] i use it, didn't know that's what it was claled...just referrer to it as accelerant. [Rich Hale] It wont make it new Steve but may get it by, I grind the brow tines off of stag crowns and fill the spot with the above [steve sells] if not I will have to cut it away and make a bolster for that area the bolster I can use another section of antler, with a spacer... [JJ] : we live in abalone cou ntry...yet i have never b een ab le to sell a knife with a balone in the handle. guys here call them "south of the border" handles. [Rich Hale] You cold also do an inlay like Jimmie said,,,,obrass,, something to match the fittings or mebbe a small chuck of ivory [leroyk] thats why i do not like elk but do use it sometimes [steve sells] hmm JJ I get a lot of walnut.. wanna trade ? [Rich Hale] Harley chain billet antler crown and a forty five aut shell inlay. If you shoot them in the head with too small of a gun it may make them take a nap,,,what off the horns and run afore they wake up [steve sells]if I gotta get my own elk, , I gonna grab my Brothers M-1 Garande I like Fresh meat for dinner tho [JJ]don't shoot the elk. just shoot the antler a clancing b low...will stun the elk...saw off, run.

From the Friday night live knife chat, March 13, 2009 [steve sells] , BUT of those having trouble with keeping the line clean for bevels, HOW MANY of you use a marker to draw out the lines first ? [jeremy k] : how do you file a concave bevel? [Rich Hale] Harvey Dean taught me that [steve sells] one thing I was told at teh start was after getting teh shape, use a fine tip permany parker to draw the lines for the bevel changes. [jimmy seale] i use a 6" disc [steve sells] so many that have trouble dont do this, they try to visulize them, which Rich and I can after many yreas, but at first NO way... I still draw the bevel lines fore a new style blade... [jimmy seale] i listenin masters.... [steve sells] the Yataghan I did last year, I had to with that weird curvy blade, no way to visulize the angles ar I went I have to draw where they started and stopped. [jimmy seale] warped ss? [steve sells] not not a total weird thing of a bevel but its NOT exactaly the same distance form the cutting edge all along the blade, and the ricasso ares, or a curve into the blade, but a sharp line... all athese were traced out before I hammered them in, and again as I started at teh grinder [steve sells] notice the ricasso is very long, this was typical for thise type of short sword/ long knife my drawing first I can see already where then heed to be, I kept the hammer inside the line, like coloring as a child. [jimmy seale] ss i still cant color in side the lines-you know that... [Rich Hale] One thing that will help when shaping a blade is to make a light steel or aluminum patter in the profile of what you want lay it on the blade at the end of each heat and see what you need to do next [steve sells] just gave a tip for grinding bevels. NExt subject aint been decided yet [jimmy seale] ol sandy scribed his lines- also said forge thick grind thin !! [steve sells] good point Rich For a new design I use the RR track I have on the side of my forge table, I draw out in soap stone on the side on my RR track I have 1 inch marks engraves on the side, I have a tape measure fro the first 12 inches, the rest just 1 inch ,marks [leroyk] how do you hold chain saw to weld it [Rich Hale] I been through that Bruce [steve sells] how did they junk ? [brucegodlesky] very frustrating, out of 4 roller chain billets, one took [leroyk] what do you fold a bunch together first [steve sells] for most billets I tie them with wire too, but for a chain.. I use the welder to draw a few beads, else it moves around too much I lost half the chain billets I tried using wires, a lot better success with a few welded beads [jimmy seale] i can't even weld a poker.... more practice me thinks [jeremy k] set the pins first to keep it more stable while red [leroyk] i will have to try harley chain i have two sons who are harley riders [steve sells] the thing with chains,. as Jeremy pointed out, it they like to fall apart, so start gently, closing the pivots dont try to just mash it close at once, of the neighboring links will seperate and fall to your floor, (dont ask how i found this out, its embarrassing) just tap to close the links pivits, then close the gaps inthe links Then try ther erld, 3 heats seems a pain, but that works wellfor me, use lots of flux, and remember to cleanout the oil/greese before welding, dont count on burning it out [leroyk] do you do just one weld or do you restack and weld again [steve sells] the chain ?> I stack about 3 or 4 layers and do another weld after I get the first run solid [jimmy seale] old drive chains have o-rings- think bout that guys [steve sells] I try not to draw out a chain too much or I loose the unique look of them so I keep it close and tight as much as I can [leroyk] ok that makes sense [steve sells] but I have seen people that do draw them out, they look good to, USe what ever you wish [jimmy seale] so 1 run then another on top? [steve sells] 10:30 pm: our MINDS are the best tool any of us have don't be afraid to try something just becauce I say I don't like it that way I am just telling what I do and how I do it, there are many other ways. all valid but I cant speak too m,uch about what I dont do., how about YOU guys I can be the only smith in this room how do YOU make them ? [jimmy seale] but do you stager the pin sections? [jeremy k] when I make one you'll be the first to know [Rich Hale]I dont use chain or rope but have always felt there is a market for harley chain knives [leroyk] ok how about this the last billet i made i added some steel from a damascus shot gun barrel i had put in some 15n20 some 1095 and a little pure nickel [jimmy seale] i figure a primar chain- 3 row [Rich Hale] Yep that one Jimmy [leroyk]it turned out realy nice and i guess the barrel was maybe 75 to 100 years old [jimmy seale] any idea on the composite if it? [steve sells] cool use of a old barrel, gave it new life [jimmy seale] bad leroy..... [steve sells] if it was gone as a gun, may as well... [leroyk] right it was a wire damascus american made barrel [steve sells] I am not a gun smith, ask someone that would know better than I, JPH is a good source too [jimmy seale] ok but still- a ol coat-shot out and turn into a knife...?ollector, and has reapir a few colt [steve sells] I would have kepet the gun myself, BUT if it was that bad, may as well salvage it [leroyk] what happened was i made a blade from the breach but it did not harden very well so i thought if i added s ome better steel it would better and it was [JJ] old doub le barrel shotguns make nice lamps. [leroyk] no the barrels was all i had and i got them froma gn show [steve sells] 1 OO Hi jj didnt see ya sneek in [Rich Hale] I have two lamps from old shotguns... [jimmy seale] ask john candy jj... [steve sells] I dont know enoug about barrels to even guess what they would use [jeremy k] that's enough the blow the lights out [jimmy seale] in the great outdoors [steve sells] I shoot but no clue to material [Rich Hale] One has a gambels quail in it the other a scaled quail [leroyk] what i have do is learn how to post a pic of it on here lol [JJ] mild steel or wrought iron, depending on age. [leroyk] i would guess it was mild steel maybe the wire had some carbon [JJ] i took a kinfe order today, based on a walnut presentation grain i showed a gent. [leroyk] where do you find walnut like that [JJ] 1: not sure ste ve, i got a pallet from the premier gun stock maker in the US. some is as nice as i'v e e ver seen....b ut only a bit of it. jimmy, they didn't make smokeless powder and fancy high v elocity cartridg3es in the time most damasc us barrels were being made. English walnut (i got some of that) cause it's sort of s tan field wit h a black grain. i have so me crotch grain for scales from it...most is claro walnut. all i'm talking a bout here is t he pallet of walnut i b ought for $70....i can get ab out $700 in decorative cutting boards and about $400 in scales, and enough for all the knife jigs and parts i need for the next year.

OK this has gone on long enough with out serious action, SO..... I am now taking bets on when/if Sam can finish this. This betting sheet will conclude Jan 1. 2011. because by then even tho he will still be promising to get it finished, we all can cash in on our bets at that time :D

65 ft back door of house, to door of shop.

the WI worked nice for my last leaf blade. Never though about the hot blue tho, great Idea KBA. the entire package is first class.

All our Rivers are back to normal, which is great since they are calling for 4 days of rain soon. Thanks for all the prayers that went up.

http://www.securitysteelsupply.com/spring.htm here is where I get my 5160. I wont buy from Admiral unless I have no other choice, 2x they have changed what I ordered, as in Substitutions, with out telling me.

Nickel has nothing to do with it not hardening, it does reduce grain growth, so it can effect hardenability in high amounts, but those amounts usually also contain Chromium so that effect is offset. The culprit was the lack of carbon.

in the case you just cited, dablacksmith; YOU were the source of the static buildup, and of course being grounded will drain your charge.

the thing you are forgetting is that the shock from static, is the discharge because WE are a good ground, If we weren't, there would be no discharge, so the wrist brace with a wire is making sure we are grounded. so we will get it more. If we stand in a rubber mat, we have isolation, no shock because we are no longer a path to ground. best to ground the belt by adding a metal roller somewhere touching the belt, and that is grounded, to drain static, rather than finding new ways to make us a better conductor. If we are the source of the static generation, then the wrist belts will drain that and no more zap zap

For strong and solid, TIG is hard to beat.

I was waiting to see how much money RC was going to lose, but I will post now anyway I was zapped good twice, once as a first year apprentice, my fault totally, 208 v. The Second I was working on a ground system, (No power lines were even attached) when a lightning strike hit the transformer outside, I was holding that ground wire at the time, unknown voltage for that one. but it threw me. Most recent time was last year when a plumber decided not to wait for me to finish fixing wires that HE damaged, but proceeded to pull out a pipe, that I was sitting on at the time. He was the idiot that in violation of code, ran that water pipe over the electric box, but was in such a hurry to hide his screw up, pushed me into 208 volt box. So the answer is technically 3 in the 28 years I have been electrician. Even though I am dyslexic, Electricians that don't pay attention well, don't live long enough to make too many mistakes.

If I told him not to do it but to hire an expert, if he is fool enough to do it himself, then it cleans out the gene pool. People don't understand it takes 4 to 5 years apprenticeship to get journeymen, then another 4 years to get master Electrician, but they think they can learn enough in a few minutes to do it Fuel tank welding is the same thing. I have sees experts have to do this in factories, but they don't like it anymore than I like to climb a, electrical power pole in a storm. Where do people get the idea they can do it with just a few tips. OR think I have to tell them anything? While I am on a rant, why cant Kids listen to adults warnings?

Ft Wayne Indiana, US 69,30 , IN14,24,1

An example is when a person asks me (a union electrician) how to hook up high voltage, I have worked with 327,00 volt lines powering a steel mill. If i refuse to tell them how I am selfish and not helpful? and since they think they know more than I do anyway I have to tell them how I do it. So I tell them, BUT because they refused to listen to my best advice, and get themself killed, as WILL happen, because they didn't listen to me when I told them not to, most likely wont listen to any other instructions either. How long before my house belongs to some lawyer for suing me, because I got someone killed ? At least as a "selfish unsharing" electrician I can sleep well at night. now I have not had blacksmiths ask me about 327,000 volts, BUT I do get a lot asking me about 120 volts, with NO clue about the reasons behind the codes. It really IS the same thing.

cool it works. !!!