Steve Sells

L is not not always for lead also the metal ID posted is not ANSI, Where are you? in your user control panel you can post a country.

Low layers are strange.... I like the look of higher layer count blades, but since people prefer the ones with less layers, (aka less work for me) I make them .. its their xall, as I want them to buy.

its located in our Tailgating section. link at upper top right of the forum page.

compress metal ? if you mean get thinner, yes. but we don't compress the metal. also its not hard to forge weld, after you figure out the temp, and correct hammer blows, ifs fairly easy. Apprenticeships traditionally started at 7 to 10 years old, after learning fire control, one of the first tasks for the young man was to forge weld the small steel scraps into larger bars for later use by the smith. as steel was not easy to make, they saved everything they could. In normal pattern welding, when you fold, or re stack the billet, you will also be re welding the first set. Patterns up to 500 layers are very visible, 1,000 layers tend to wash out a bit. It does not need power tools, I dont have any PW or press for welding, tho a press is my next building project. FYI: the first blades to sell out for many of us at shows are the lower layer counts of 80 to 150 layers. Bolder pattern

Natural gas normally uses larger. Also the gas lines for a normal residential service are only about 3psi. that's one reason most use propane rather than Natural gas.

this project is for when I demo at ren-faires, I can have a chicken, or even a stuffed animal, on the spit turning to attract attention, and get conversation started and keep the marks, errr Clients around . Cant make the sale and get their money if they are walking away.

as you read through this site you will find lists of assumed steels for various items we can salvage. But the main thing to remember is Found or salvage steel is a crap shoot as to its composition. There is no way other than a Lab analysis to know what it is for sure. there is a search function to find this question already posted. and its answers. At the right hand top in the orange bar. simply take a guess or since I searched using that for you, and combined 4 of these threads into one, look at all these other people that asked the same thing and read their answers...

2 hour long UPS commercial ? and not a very good movie either.

[m_brothers] I am having trouble when i finish the knife, like final forging, when im finishing up the straightening, i always manage to get it pretty straight, but then after HT, i get a small curve or bend in the middle of the blades, always. don't know if i dont put the blade in the quench straight, etc.. [Rich Hale] Do you normalize? [m_brothers] yes, three times. [steve sells] normalizing fixes that MOST the time. straight and not causing warp it by moving the blade around too soon in the quench. [brucegodlesky] on the edge or the whole blade [m_brothers] : from edge to about 1" or so up from edge. [Rich Hale] What size is your quench tankand do yoou warm the oil? [JJ] i use a vertical rack for normalizin g and for cooling after quench. knife lays horizontal to longitudinal axis and sits vertical to b lade spine axis. [m_brothers] quench tank is an old large spray paint can with the top cut off, with old motor oil. [JJ] i cut grooves in light weight fire brick, which i heat prior to normalizi ng. [m_brothers] i heat it with a rr spike, that i've named the hot hand, because i put it in, and take it out, repeat until, the oil is hot to the touch and i go into the quench tank blade edge first. [brucegodlesky] might be heating that blade unevenly [m_brothers] i quench vertically [JJ] that will cause a bend as front is cooling rapidly while back is v ery hot. [m_brothers] with the gasser, even though its an even heat, i still move it back and forth until its as evenly heated as possible, to my ability no bend in front, i mean if you lay the knife on its spine like this: [Rich Hale] A lot of folks have that touble and it seems to persist..and after a 100 blades or so it just goes away [m_brothers] and you look at it, it looks like this: ( but way slighter [JJ] ok, it's the uneven heats in both those steps, like Rich suspected. [m_brothers] so it's just my experience and ability most likely? [Rich Hale] Might be [garey] try doing the quench horizontaly . get a different quench tank. [steve sells] even a gasser needs the blade turned to even th eheat [JJ] i didn't think about it til t his question came up...b ut i use to get bends liek that oo...have not in several years to any extent. i use to do vertical quenc h. [garey] i like to put the edge in all at the same time horizontaly [JJ] i bent a sculpture today b y oil quenching vertically. took half an hour to fix it. [Rich Hale] I do point first as it loses heat the fastes...but not sure it loes tat much [m_brothers] isn't only a edge quench though [Rich Hale] One key for sure is o may areal quick trip from fire to oil [sfDuck] : If you put a thermometer in the oil what range would be best [m_brothers] i think 120F, but i think i might be wrong [Rich Hale] I use atf at 110f to 120f [JJ] tip does go in first, but then the quench follows the blade line flat down....if that makes any sense. [steve sells] hot to touch for the start of quenching [garey] i uase cooking oil from the catfish joint heated to about 180 / 200 F. and it drives the cats crazy when i quench in it [steve sells] maybe 120 to 150F [m_brothers] i understand jj, but isn't that still an edge quench [steve sells] I dont use it after it reaches 180 unless I am austempering [JJ] i have found tha twith 10 gallon oil pot, right tempt is to heat a 3 lb hammer head, quench in t he oil. then it's ready. [brucegodlesky] not if you submerge the whole blade [m_brothers] or is it deep enough, to quench the whole blade? [Rich Hale] I got some from cooking a turkey grey peanut oil when I get new tank doen will switch to it... [steve sells] edge quench is just that, only edge hardened. try to stay with full quenching at first til ya get that covered well [brucegodlesky] I like vet grade mineral oil [JJ] John, you may b e missing the point...we are not talking ab out edge only quen ch...talking about what part of the knife should go into the oil first. [steve sells] i have a 2.5 gal quench [JJ] i use a commercial quench oil [m_brothers]so should i set up a horizontal quench? [JJ] that just means it has a high flash point. [Rich Hale] Use what you got [garey] a little oil fire dont hurt any:) just close the lid and snuff it out. LOL! [brucegodlesky] I had problems with peanut oil [steve sells] I used only 30 wt and tranny fluid for years just fine [Rich Hale] Wot kind Bruce? [steve sells] veggie oils now, some times mineral oil [JJ] i used to use what came out of my diesel engine...til i got sick of the smell [brucegodlesky] plain old peanut oil [Rich Hale] Wot kind of problems? [brucegodlesky] some stuff wouldn't harden fully [brucegodlesky] 52100 [Rich Hale] Known steel? [brucegodlesky] yep [Rich Hale] I will try this with that in mind [JJ] wow...i air harden 52100 [brucegodlesky] with plates JJ [steve sells] plates? [JJ] plates? [sfDuck] I have a 30 gal press tank with feet on it, and it was a a pretty red colour, just cut the top off it and it has a plug outlet in the bottom. With old motor oil and a bit of tranny fluid [brucegodlesky] quench plates [steve sells] what are those? I dont know that term [Rich Hale] I use quench plates for sheep horn [brucegodlesky] 2 half inch thick aluminum plates [steve sells] as a heat sink ? [JJ] used as a heat sink? [garey] boil and squeeze press to flatten Rich? [Rich Hale] Yes for what I do [JJ] steve, quit reading my mind! [brucegodlesky] I seen it done with, I believe, A2 [steve sells] : ok I am a yankee never call them that LOL [Rich Hale] Heat in oven the press them between two aluminum plates,,,,and I only use stablilied [garey] i made some scales from a old goat horn. :)

From Knife chat April 3, 1009 [brucegodlesky] Has anyone run into L6 steel in finished form and what was it? I mean was iot a saw blade? [Rich Hale] Yes saw blade [brucegodlesky]what type of saw blade [Rich Hale] Band saw [steve sells] Estwing uses L6 in their claw hammers [brucegodlesky] now thats interesting [steve sells] a steel mill here uses 10 foot circular sawblades [steve sells] a few large band saw blands use L6 [steve sells] Crucible only makes L6 in rounds, while Timken make them in flats, min 3/8 inch thick and they use a different mix. .25 less nickel and about .10 less moly [Rich Hale] If round blades have carbide teeth they are not likely L-6, I get 15n20 in flat bar stock from K and G [steve sells] NO but the steel mill isnt carbide, its 5/8 inch thick that get re sharpened every few hours, they have a stack they rotate [Rich Hale] I would use that Bruce [brucegodlesky] they use carbide tips [steve sells] L6 can be a problem to work, it like to air harden for one, it like to crack it hit outside about a 250F temp range, I love it and deal with the problems, but not a beginner steel tho, Remember L6 never hit from black heat to 1600F as it WILL shatter, may be only micro cracks, but its a gonner, welding heat is fine, but too hot and it crumbles like O1, forge 1650f to 1800f is best [Rich Hale] Interesting [sfDuck] would a planner blade be then [Rich Hale] D-2 I think Duck [brucegodlesky] only time I thought I had some old time l6 was in dragsaw blades. [steve sells] S series. D series 10xx series. even 13xx or 15xx, very old ones could be O2 of F-1 [Rich Hale] Bruce if you want any just order new 15n20 [brucegodlesky] I have a bunch Rich [steve sells] D series replace most uses for O2 one reason its not made in the US anymore I think, but not sure [brucegodlesky] Reason I asked, L6 air hardens and can be difficult to anneal correct? [steve sells] yup most the time I sub critical anneal its in my advanced annealing sticky [brucegodlesky] I did a favor for a customer and forged a blade from a chisel. Dang thing wanted to air harden on me [Rich Hale] I don't I have used L-6 and 15n20 they are the same as far as what I do with them [brucegodlesky] heirloom old [steve sells] F series, no longer made uses Tungston modern steel prefer Vanadium, so F series Bye bye [Rich Hale] Bruce what do you use to anneal in? [brucegodlesky] vermiculite in an insulated box [Rich Hale] Same here [m_brothers] I thought vermiculite could insulate on its own? what made me think it might be L6 was the air hardening and the difficulty annealing [Rich Hale] One of the charts show sears wrenches and some auto camshafts as L-6 have not triedthose [sfDuck] I've been using hardwood ash to anneal in but it does not always work [brucegodlesky] when I worked with it, it reminded me of the old dragsaws I used to use [Rich Hale] I hate things that work part time except for me [brucegodlesky] whatever it is, it's a heckuva good cutter!!! [Rich Hale] Ya done good [steve sells] thats what matters Bruce [brucegodlesky] I actually got 2 blades outta it. He doesn't know he's getting ther seconmd one, made a good trade [steve sells] I got an order todayu got a billet of o1 l6 and a 3rd for color contrast [brucegodlesky] : whatcha gonna use steve for the third? [steve sells] my o-1 dont have any nickel. med level of chrome so I can get a dark etch over time,. but a short etch gives a nice gray color, I was thinking my 1090 [Rich Hale] Thin nickel [brucegodlesky] that will keep the C up [steve sells] as it has .87C and 0.025 va BUT its got 0.90 Mn so its very dark etch, Client said 3rd steel for hardening, not nickel in the quote, I do have 201 nickel sheet. I got this from Aldo, I looked up the specs. They say this is classified as 1090 I was thinking its 1087 but found it listed. as Mn 0.3 for 1087 the 1090 is listed as .9 Mn. : anyway its very dark from what I have seen so far [Rich Hale] Hope the wind lets u tomorrow so I can heat treat these two blades [steve sells] which is good as I know people using the O-1 flavor that wat a little nickel as thelight layer with 1095... bruce is outside for heat treat? [brucegodlesky] open air shop, 5 ft walls [Rich Hale] I like a wee bit of nickel for contrast [brucegodlesky] I posted a picture this week of a high layer blade. Used a piece of handsaw in it and it come out almost white [Rich Hale] Cool [sfDuck] Todd what was your recipe that you showed earlier [steve sells] what have the rest of you been making ? [m_brothers] mono steel, small hunter [steve sells] : ok john what steel are you using? how does that feel compared to teh RR spike y ou started with >? [m_brothers] 1075, the guy couldn't remember if it was 1070 or 1075 from the knife show a little bit harder, but still forges like butter, compared to the lawnmower blade blanks that i got, it's mild.[brucegodlesky] really don't think you'll notice a difference john [jahpoboy] Are mower blades any good for knives? [steve sells] some are [brucegodlesky] mebbe for practice [steve sells] I was thinking RR spikes He has been using vs a bar of new steel, its consistency [sfDuck] What steel are lawn mower baldes [steve sells] you tell us Duck, hard to tell with any found steels. [jahpoboy] I know you can break one if you hit a big enough rock [Rich Hale] The ones i take off my riding mower are ruined steel [m_brothers] the lawn mower blades came right from there rolls of blade stock, cuz my aunt is a higher-up there, and got a me a tour of everything, and they let me go scrounging in there drop bin of some crazy named steel, but he said HT like a higher carbon 10xx series......haven't made a knife from it yet. The blade stock was used for the blades in a combine that chop up corn [sfDuck] I found them hard to work so left them for boot scapers [m_brothers] depending on how those pieces go, i might go back and get more [brucegodlesky] ya mean a flail type blade? [steve sells] besides the fact of not knowing what a used steel is, you have to ask , Why isn't in use as intended anymore ? [m_brothers]: they do a lot of cold forming, only have two gas forges for hot forming, and these are pieces that werent the right size, like a inch short, etc.. [JJ] bottom line is...if you make for your own use you can use an y junk steel...but if you sell it there is too much liability in anything but NEW steel. [m_brothers] it is NEW STEEL [JJ] i understand john , b ut you are in a uniquew position...my c omments are for general consumption [steve sells] we can only try JJ. no one remembers and wants to use old found stuff anyway, then later expect us to tell them how to heat treat it LOL [JJ] yes steve...heat treat a steel you have know idea what it is? right. [m_brothers] for my birthday, im geting some 1084 and 15n20 from K & G. next subject? [JJ] john, use a piece of fire hose around the blade when you do your b end test. be safe. [steve sells] any one having any particular troubles with blades ? every thing going well for you so far? [m_brothers] of course i am! [steve sells] JJ has been making a few lately from what I hear [JJ] having trouble getting good close up pics. can't figure out the camera. [steve sells] ask a neighbor kid.... [brucegodlesky] hehehehe [JJ] steve, i only do about 30 a yer. i've just been on a good order b last lately. [steve sells] that how I figured out the FIOS when we got it 2 years ago

Tall enough to get through what ever you need it to cut.

my CO detector has a LED read out, and loud alarm and cost $38, your hospital Visit cost at least $6,000 the math is simple. Glad you are still alive.

I hate to admit it, but I do have a set of tongs that would hold him :o

hard to have a price with out knowing the weight, Its like saying I have a truck its worth 10,000. its either a F-250 or F350, if I own it I would know what it is, so should this so called appraiser.

good its not hard to do, but very hard to explain a in a forum setting like this. after you do it a little with the scraps in the shop, we can help you make pretty patterns, and blades with it. Start with mild scraps, with a person showing you what colors and its easier. MUCH easier, than us trying to explain cleaning the bars, yellow heat, and scarfing :)

I see you are 13, first how long have you been forging? ever forge welded before? there are many threads dealing with that if you will look for them and read. Its best if your teacher shows you how to start than reading text in a forum. read up in the forums here, then ask again about what problem you may then have. Your asking how to fold a knife shows you have not read anything for yourself yet.

Please read up a bit more, or I will be forced to nominate you for the Darwin awards. :o

1130 is C 0.30 but the 11 is Resulfurized, meaning added sulfur to help in free machining

the spikes labeled HC are 1030 at best, many are less. Most agree that 1045 is a minimum for blades to have a good edge, higher is preferred by most also. As for feel under the hammer, 1030 feels close enough to 1070 or 1095 to get used to forging. and if you have a good supply, I say "Bang away"! welcome to the world of bladesmithing. RR spike are good a place as any to begin, but dont expect a high quality edge from them, no matter what we do, the chemistry isn't there for great cutting ability, but still better than bronze was in the dark ages. Having said that all the various blade steels have different alloy elements, and can move differently under the hammer, so that is also why most suggest starting with ONE steel, and learning it well, before trying others, as we have to relearn THAT metal's quirks too now.

I admit that I use a heavier hammer than most. Science does prove that energy is a function of mass x velocity. Having one at the expense of the other is less than ideal. Use a hammer that you can control, and still swing with good speed for the best efficiency. If you are used to a 3# than stay with that weight range, care for your body you only get one in this life time.

all carbon steels need oiled to prevent corrosion, IF you are worried about corrosion, AND want a nice looking blade that will cut AND hold an edge, try D-2 and the 304 you have. Also a long slow etch is more even that a short fast one. Not beginner steels, but as you are already forge welding 304, it should not be a problem for you. and will make a good blade. even a mix, of more d-2 to less 304 is fine.

was great to meet ya face to fact Tom, Sorry I wasn't feeling the greatest, but wanted top see you too How could you miss my black IFI t-shirt with the large white anvil on the back? LOL looking forward to have ya over for BBQ some time.

just bank up the coal. so you have room when you need it. My fire pot is 17 x 17 and I can use from a hand full to 10# of fuel as needed. OR stack a few bricks if you want

what no 30# claymores to sell? Sorry I had to post that. I see too many people who want to design their own sword, but its as another member stated: trying to design a car when you have never drove, can be a problem. When I take on a commission for a blade, I talk to my clients to see what they want in the blade, and how/if it will be used. For a katana an Iaito will be different than a heavy cutting blade, just as a race car will be designed differently for road racing than for drag racing. For Beth's son, and the Urik-hai why heat treat? or worry about distal taper? its a childs toy!!!, Hammer away, let HIM help too, it will mean so much more to him then. Both of you should have fun. As for the wasted stock suggestion, even tho many good blades are made that way... Just to remind you, this IS a smithing site, would he have suggested that a person grind out any other other tool rather than forge, because its easier, and the metal is straighter? part of smithing is learning to move the metal how we want it. Its easier to hire some one if ya want to get real picky about this :D

I have decided to build a medieval rotisserie. rather than hire spit boys, I will be using clock work type gears and weighted pendulum to turn the spit. Anyone have plans? experience with any Clock work mechanism, I have ideas, but would like some opinion from others before I attempt to reinvent the wheel. Thanks