Steve Sells

[garey] highly finished/polished knife verses a working low finish knife. time wise and dollar wise. around here folks dont buy a expensive knife [steve sells] HIgh polish dont take that much more effoct when compared to making the blade inthe first place. its a matter opf what the clients wants I would charge a little more but not a lot more oly because it IS more work [garey] most knife buyers are deer hunters around here and wont pay the extra $$ for a fancy blade. they want a good solid working knife for around $150.00 [steve sells] ok then focus on that the NEED a solid blade that holds up in the field with LITTLE work on the owner part correct? [garey] sell more semi finished knives with a 220 grit finish than anything else [steve sells] a satin finish hides any scratched, grind to 200 the buff, will removes valeys fro rust formation whil leaving the satin for hiding marks from brush and bone cutting. [rock-n-time] Geeeeeee i was thinking i needed to work on my typeing Steve you are good [steve sells] typo King, 28 years running ya think you want my title ? I have spell check in the forums Cant get it in here tho [rock-n-time] NO WAY!!!!! [steve sells] OK guys the Project knife .. a few questions I hammered out the O-1 this week and gave it a rough grind to remove mill scale. the bevels are partial, they need marked off, and ground to final.. PLUS the blade itself needs some shape. I forges to the dimensions we all agreed on, but its looks too blocky I want to add some shape to it. I have a photo to show to any one that what to see it, I wont post this in the forum till the blade is finished, because some will look and thing ICK and forget the blades after that... I think it wants to be a bowie, but tels talk the shape of this m so I can get tham done and finish grinding the blade to final. [jeremy k] what shapes could be done with it? [steve sells] WHO want a look, rich, and Jeremy have seen it. I would like top remove a little on the spine to give a bit of a curvature to it there [therepairman1557] kinda had a indian trade knife look to it [garey] kind of looks like a old green river buffalo butcher knife Steve. [steve sells] only hammered and removed scale for photo, I will post a full liost pof P{Eople in this chat that helped, as well adn people working onit in the shop. when its finished [N8 Knives] i think i make good sheaths, i i only know how to make molded sheaths and would need the knife [steve sells] this photo is only the first forging, scale removed for the photo [lobodag] what style of the handle play a part in the blade has that been picked out? [steve sells] nate since Rich will be making the handle, I can make a copy of blade with guard to Give yiou, for a pattern have not covered that yet, after we final the blade shape, the handle is next ! [lobodag] or taper the handle end so the tip and first radius is larger [steve sells]pm: Handle has not been covered, we need to do that tonight also [lobodag] handle end [N8 Knives] whats it made of [steve sells] its O-1 , presently 1 5/8 at the belly, 1 1/2 at the guard. 8 inch if cutting edge plus a little choil its 3/16 at guard, for the chopping portion, 1 little over 1/8 for most the blade, less than 1/8 the last 2 inches for skinning and filleting so a heavy hunting knife [N8 Knives] is it going to be a full tang or hidden or through [steve sells] I wanted open and visible full tang [Rich Hale] Full [steve sells] strong solid and no change of pulling the tang out [lobodag] little fret work on the spine? [Rich Hale] No file work [steve sells] I dont mind but for the food side of a hunter its easier to keep clean with out them [rock-n-time] Having not made a Knife Yet I would think. and this is just me talking. but is this not what the art of knife smithing a bout letting the steel talk to us? [steve sells] Rich I want to start wiht your opinion about handle, as it was not shaped yet. coffin? square? a little taper like your standard collection on your web site looks nice [Rich Hale] Let me explain that...It is a real tough thing to fit scales to someone else work we all do things differently. I have some exhibition grade ironwood tat i will fit and donate. File work will make this a entirely differnt animal that what I agreed to. And I never let a knife tell me what it wants to be I decide and make it to the best of my ability [rock-n-time] Bummer [Rich Hale] if ya all want file work on the blade that is up to Steve.. [steve sells] I have just hammered away for make a show piece, but Client ( in this case the knife chat members) call all the shots I guide them for the use they plan [lobodag] gee take 5 it was just a suggestion [steve sells] simple is best for this project. Its not going to help IFOI raise any extra by adding 5 to 20 hours of File work [steve sells] the project was a GOOD solid working blade lets do arty stuff later [rock-n-time] Ok I'm on page now [lobodag] I dull not fun ah? [steve sells] starting with rich as the handle maker in this case.. I will pass to him for a bit

No but there is a problem when you try to get the membership to jump through hoops for you like a pack of trained dogs. Wanting to learn is great, but your attitude of posting, then refusing to listen to the reply's are getting to be a pain. and some of your comments both private and public, are very insolent.

maybe the name Sterno rings a bell? is the problem a language issue here? Not speaking in complete sentences, or even real words some times, makes it very hard to understand.

The problem solving is under the section of blacksmithing. This is the section for general and non smithing nonsense. I am sorry if that is a difficult concept for you.

looks good spike, good thing ya got your hammer working, and good thing they didnt ask for leaves of H13, if you thought 304 moves hard LOL

So this post has nothing to do with blacksmithing? This will now be relocated. Why even make a post like that at this forum?

I agree with you. I see nothing in error about your statement, and I feel it was very well stated. Many RR blades posted in this site are very poor, but as staff here I try to help show people HOW to make good blades. I have given up my Friday nights to oversee the Live knife chat for over a year now. I make an attempt to teach. Some are trying to help by encouraging others, some fear to make them stop trying if they get less than approving statements, we all can to better, and Hopefully as a group we can help each other to learn and grow into world class smiths. Until then I agree Honest opinions with a pointer to the solution is better than happy comments about everything, with no real feed back. The problem is the flaming that comes with a honest statement that may upset others. its a hard balancing act. So many times I am guilty of choosing to not post about a less than ideal project, than risk getting my foot into my mouth again. Glad you are here, I hope that maybe you can teach me to help others with out sounding like I am slamming their efforts. I have very little tact, and many of my statements come out sounding wrong, even when I do mean well.

yup, that averages out to about 60pts of carbon. try lawn mower blades, or pallet straps for starting. Most new blade steels average out to be $3.50 a pound, not too bad for a blade you can sell for a lot more.

Why the shock? these same steels cost almost 2x as much online, look at Admiral, or K&G. whats sad is paying $100 for steel, and being able to carry the entire purchase into the shop in one hand.:(

I love the genuine NHL handle too :D

Since locating the menu on the HOME page of this web site is a problem for you, here it is Lessons | articles Just trying to be helpful to those unable to help themselves.

the strangest thing is that this post started as a comment on a post of Frosty's in the safety section of the forum, in a Sticky! I cant imagine why anyone thinks a post like this is that much of a safety issue either.

a few air quench steels meet those criteria. What is " ... i know its high in carbon because it puts out a horrible amount of carbon..." what does carbon look like when its put out?

Mike, didn't you read the reply to this question the first time you asked? on the first page of this thread?:confused:

In the modern world, having a business is more than just knowing how to swing a hammer. Grammar, diction, blue print reading and drawing, attention to details, and math skills are just as important.

then why did you start this post ? http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f11/hammer-control-11121/ Could you please make up your mind, this is getting very confusing. :confused:

look like a good deal. If you want to try to splint the broken leg you can, but I doubt it will heal. But not a major issue as few anvils need to run marathons. I think you made a good purchase.

actually New Guy Winter is coming up for him. :)

there is a sticky for how to choose steels, to make this part of the job simpler. It seemed good to post for helping new blade makers get started, but no one wants to read these days, I think they are waiting for the movie...

true but I assume when posting in the knife section they mean blades, Else We relocate them to the appropriate area of the forum. Mirror finishes are nice, but a little more work to maintain in a usable blade than satin. But as Rich stated, they a so much easier to keep from rusting, and there are less places for rust to get a start.

rest in peace Thomas... Err I meant Happy Birthday, not that there is much difference at that advanced age. :D

I buy from Crucible Service Centers for L-6, But be aware they only make it in rounds, where as Tinkin (Carpenter) makes flats as thin as 3/8 they are slightly different mixes, Both work well I am told, but have only used Crucible.

Alum has NO relationship to that. its a Potassium based compound. Just incase you didnt read that. not sure I would want any Aluminum on my canvas.

[steve sells] What you guys been doing lately, any blade work? happy results? problems ? [brucegodlesky] etching cable, lotsa cusswords [jeremy k] no blade work but I built a mini hydraulic press that would work good for knife makers and less that $130.00 to build if you have steel laying around [steve sells] : I have 2 slabs of rough cut fiddle back walnut drying under the Exhaust fan [markb] I've got one ready to quench and treat but afaid to screw it up [steve sells]why do you think you wil screw it up ? [markb] I haven't done it before [steve sells] wanna cover heat treat again ? [markb] Well i did one and got a soft tip [steve sells] I already wrote stickys YOU guys help Markb out,.... this chat should be a group effort. [markb] I've spent so much time a t file and sand [jeremy k] what steels is it? [markb] 1084 [steve sells] 1 good start [markb]obsessing on imperfections [jeremy k] is that a water or oil quench steel? [markb] oil [jeremy k]what color is a temper color for knives - like hammers - straw? [steve sells] that good for most. 325F to 350 is plenty for a small blade that temp barely shows color [markb] Do you think triple quench is necessary [steve sells] water for 1050 or lower is ok [steve sells] I always double temper, [markb] room temp between? [steve sells] over night in freezer between, just top help retained austinite brealk into martensite [steve sells] room is fine Mark and I are far enough north to let it cool [markb] Thanks simple first [steve sells] people like Rich Hale dont need a H/T oven they just wave the bvlade out the window and it heats up [markb] Too hot down there [steve sells] yup no snow either over there, weird place to live [jeremy k] I think Rich has been having his cryo treated [steve sells] yes but he is using high tech Stainless also [steve sells] I low tech cryro 5160 [jeremy k] Steve is the oven the safest bet on tempering for consistency? [steve sells] steel tube, cruched dry ice packed around the blade in the pipe, cover in acitone I get -170 [steve sells] I use wife kitchen oven for blades up to 26 inches with tang [jeremy k] 2-3 hrs? [steve sells] 1 to 2, I turn on oven to get to temp before hardening [jeremy k] are the temp knobs fairly accurate? [steve sells] after the oil quench, I wipe it off ( mainly to keep wife from killing me) and place in over before it can cool below the 400F [steve sells] Dont trust them I use candy thermometer [jeremy k] ahh [steve sells] after 1 hour, I let cool in over, then place in House freezer over night then 1 more hour the next night, the retained Austine will convert to untempered martensite over time,. the cooling speeds this time up [jeremy k] correct me - could you heat up till oil burns off a few times - is that a close temp - burning oil? [steve sells] its not real cryo, true cryo needs a lot colder than this lol [steve sells] oil for tempering ? I use oil at 450F for Austempering large blades so lower for normal tempering is safe [jeremy k] ?? can't remember were I heard something about burning the oil off [steve sells] IF you know what temp the oil burns, that can be a temp indiactor [steve sells]if oils, and mixes, have dif flash points [jeremy k] 1rue they do [steve sells] mine burns at a little over 500F, I found out hard way [jeremy k] that doesn't sound good [steve sells] about the tempering Some people say it must come to room temp before tempering. thats only when they temper once, to help get some retained austenite to convert nefore temper, BUT I have had blades crack from getting too cold and not tempering soon enough so I temper first, at low temp 350 or so, to relax stress from the quench and temper some of the steel. after the freezer I temper again at desired temp for the target Hardness. normally 375 to 400 for hand knives, this also tempers the martensite that formed during my cold rest period by tempering right after the quench I have not had a broken blade like I used to get by waiting till it cooled a bit first [jeremy k] I know a few that have broken blades by not tempering them soon enough - before dropping them [steve sells] dropping un tempered steel >? OUCH I made 3 nice boots knives, from what should have been a left hand blade for a fencer [jeremy k] no me - someone I know - I probably would though if I made one [steve sells] it was a 15 inch blade, after getting bumped (by me) becauwe 3 boot knives,and some small pieces I was able to salvage something from it [jeremy k] inside every knife is a smaller one crying to get out [steve sells] lol if ya hear it cry during quench>? forget it lol [jeremy k] high pitched cry? [steve sells] pm: like a off key song the ends in a higher pitch crack, There are many way to temper some use a hot plate, some heat a bar of steel.. I am talking simple tempering small blades don't usually need differential tempering [m_brothers] with differential tempering, how soft do you really want the spine to be? [steve sells] if ya even done oil quench steel in water, you have heard this sound [m_brothers] I've heard of people putting the edge of their knives in water, and using a blow torch to heat the spine to a dull red, is that to soft? like mushrooming from use over the years? [m_brothers] i've heard and witnessed it steve [steve sells] why heat spine to red ? most I have done is purple spine for a sword, cutting edge in water to keep cool [m_brothers] it's super soft then, but i was just wondering why you would do that instead of drawing like a blue or purple for a spine [steve sells] to red you are basically converting the back to austenite, I get asked to cover advanced things, but too many complain at mid level topics being over their heads.. [steve sells] actually this is basic heat treating anyone SHOULD know to make blades not advanced at all I have tried to build up and post notes for later reference to help people follow [jeremy k] I don't do enough heat treating so it's always good to hear again fro me [steve sells] MARK,, one reason your tip may be soft after H/T if you over heat is causes other problems. heat from the spine, and hear the tip/edges last to keep from over heating [markb] why? [steve sells] the heat will travel from back to the edge anyway, and the thinner edge heats faster than thick spine. over heating causes large grain growth, and to hot before quench also casues plate rather than lathe forms of martensite [markb] I put that one in the forge , mistake [steve sells] lathe is much more brittle too,

If you don't think any of these apply, you should stop smithing and read a LOT more before you continue. Most ALL you list is dangerous, if you don't believe that they can be, you are delusional, and WILL get hurt. Please work safe.