Unforgivun

So today I attended the Alabama Forge Councils' annual conference. It was NOTHING like I expected it to be. The people associated with smithing are apparently a unique breed of people in that everyone is more than happy to tell you anything you want to know so long as you seem willing to learn. There are only 2 places where I have seen this. Smithing, and Boy Scouts. Anyway along the way I got to meet our own CVMikeRay and BMazingo. Both are extremely nice people and I consider myself lucky to have met them. I also learned that Mike has a CNC plasma and makes stunningly beautiful leaf cut outs, rose patterns etc using it. Here are a few pictures of the afternoon. I got so wrapped up talking to people and taking it all in that I forgot to take pictures until the sun was going down and lots of people had already left. Forge Pavilion Iron in the hat/auction CVMikeRay with a few of the things he purchased during the auction. I believe it was a copper rose and a Clay Spencer candle holder. Mike also got some nice deals on a few other items . Anyway for anyone on this site that I didn't meet, the event was a blast. I don't think you could go and not have a good time. I hope everyone had a blast and hope to meet more people there again next year.

Another idea for a blower that people have extra's of are yard decoration inflation motors... You know, the big snow globes around Christmas, or the giant pumpkins at Halloween. This Stuff http://www.ebay.com/itm/HALLOWEEN-AIRBLOWN-INFLATABLE-LIGHTED-GHOSTS-DECORATION-/150657686897?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2313e5dd71 Anyway they have thick plastic squirrel cage blowers in them (or at least some do). After a few years the nylon starts to rot but the fan is still good.

I've seen several in GA go cheaper than that. For more weight too http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/tls/2518223903.html http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/2547859824.html I know those aren't cheaper, just not much farther away. Not long ago there was a 153lb Peter Wright in Athens for sale for $250. Just keep an eye open, a better deal will come on there.

We used to wire ours up with a clothes pin, wrap each end with thin wire and then separate them with a peice of cardboard. We'd tie fishing line to the cardboard and then just pull it out when we were ready. Of course this WAS at boyscout camp so we didn't have a vehicle nearby. As a 2nd thought, if I were launching something like an anvil I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want MY vehicle nearby then either. Couple hundred feet of extension cord at least. I like the thin wire filament idea though Grant. I think that could be used for a variety of things. .

For things of that nature I would think an electric rocket engine would work well. They make remote detonator switches etc for hobby rockets, or you could make your own very simply. I didn't get to watch the program as my power was out during when it was shown, but does anyone know if they swabbed out the base before each launch? When dealing with canon they used a swab dunked in water to wash out and quench any embers or fires that may have been burning before putting the next batch of powder in to prevent pre-ignition. This was considered the most important part of being on a canon crew even in re-enactments as if it went bad, the powder would ignite as it was rammed down launching the ram rod and taking the ram rod guys fingers or hand with it

Neat!

I felt that your rebuttal was sufficient. Did you not? If not what would you like to discuss. As far as their time being better spent repairing an old vise. I agree. If they have an old vise to repair do that. I would. Again though, if I didn't, I would build one so that I had a vise to work with.

And THAT is the type of response and criticism that is relevant, appreciated and adds value to this thread. The filings and scale could indeed jam up the rear roller. Either the addition of a small brush section inside the I beam or turning the cross bar on an angle would help eliminate this problem before it became a problem. As far as a pivoting jaw, I really didn't see the need for one if you're making a roller vise, the jaw would stay parallel at all times so the pivot isn't needed. A fixed jaw would be preferred on a roller system. I actually thought the pivoting jaw on the vertical vise to be too tall and wondered if that wouldn't make it kick out at an angle if the material wasn't centered over the pivot or running the entire length of the jaw. I also want to point out if someone only wanted to do a traditional vise idea I don't see a problem with that either, I just didn't see the point in my sketching one out since the "vertical vise" seemed about as efficient a design as any for a homemade vise. Barbell idea may not work, the nut on the one I have is in fact steel, but some may be cast iron, I do not know. Its just mentioned as an option that happened to fit me since I actually had an old one. There are plenty of other acme options mentioned between the 2 threads and I'm sure there will be many more. My drawing indicating a 10 TPI threading is just a result of my poor artwork. I really should have refined that sketch before uploading. It was originally intended to convey a build idea to be used with a set of materials that I happened to have.

My thought was to remove the rubber to eliminate "flat spots" like you would get from a heavy table on casters. A ball bearing might be even better though. Peacock, I think the idea of it being so long is to keep the weight distribution somewhat even. I don't know that it would matter with a roller design though. So you might be right. EDIT: After clicking on that link to theball bearing that seams like IF you were going to go the roller route it would probably be the way to go. I know someone using those casters on a table that weighs close to 1500lbs but he's not beating on them, they're just to move it. Something beefier might be best. I was thinking with the casters the thing steel bracket would have to be changed anyway and mount the roller between 2 pieces of angle or something.

Tell ya what, since apparently the thread won't be deleted so that there isn't a sense of argument on here I'll do this. I'll run with it. And I'll try to respond to any criticism that I find to be unfounded and I'll try to point out why even if it makes no sense, since that's what is apparently expected. Anything I believe to be a legitimate criticism I'll be more than happy for. Does no one read this part of the post? I actually say that since I found a traditional post vise I would not be making my vise or the vertical vise. I am a hobbyist. That doesn't mean I don't want to broaden my horizons and get to where I can sell the things that I create anymore than you do. Just because it is not my primary means of income does not mean that I do not take it seriously. Telling me to "go and play" makes an assumption about me and my personality that you probably shouldn't, but it does tell me something of you and your lack of respect for a hobbyist smith. The idea of this is intended to be a last resort for someone who either can't find a vise, doesn't have one but has the means to make one etc. its an IN THE MEANTIME sort of idea. As far as I'm concerned a subpar vise that gets the job done is better than NO VISE AT ALL. so let me clear this up by saying I DO NOT CONSIDER ANY VISE TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE THAN A TRADITIONAL POST VISE. THERE IS A REASON THEY'VE BEEN USED FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS. THAT REASON IS THEY WORK The barbell that I had is actually 3TPI so It would be plenty fast for this type of work. Even in that picture there, you can see the threads and see that they are NOT 10 TPI. At no point do I suggest using a large carriage bolt as an acme screw. Now send in the next crotchety traditionalist.

Might look in the yellow pages under battery and see what you find. There are a few places around here that rebuild rechargeable batteries for tools, laptops, phones etc. They're generally much cheaper than buying a new battery.

I like it! Like these other guys have said, mount it on its side. My little slab doesn't have much rebound either and it'll tire you out much faster than an anvil with rebound. Heres a link to another thread here called "Brazeal Anvil Rising" Last one there is my little one. Like Thomas said, perhaps figure out a way to use those holes to slip something in and have some form of a horn. The holes near the corners would make good spots for tools, you could have the "peg" that slips into the holes and then a small bar or something that sits on top of the face and keeps it from turning. Could even do some file work and mount something like this hardy cone. Although I don't know that you could hammer on that like a regular horn and use it as a fuller. Should be fine for bends I would think. I think my first goal on it would be to ensure it is steel. If it is, talk to these fellas on here and find out how to increase your rebound maybe by hardfacing or hardening or something. I dunno. If the answer is to hardface it I think I would only do a small section, maybe 5 or 6 inches. That would give you a hammering surface of say 2.75" x 5" or something. Plenty of room to work with since the main thing you need is the rebound under the hammer head. That might not be an option if it mars up your work or something though so I don't know I'm just tossing out an idea. I use my "slab-o-steel" anvil often and the edges have moved a bit due to it being a bit softer than I'd like, but it does work. It moves metal well, it just doesn't have the rebound that would help make it much easier. Goodluck with it, have fun. If nothing else you have a solution until a regular anvil comes along.

Chyancarrek, Thanks for the words of encouragement. I don't want the thread taken down because I'm embarrassed or anything like that. I have gotten several good ideas out of this thread even with the negativity. I want the thread taken down because I feel it is a very poor example of what the IforgeIron community is.

Neat... I should have thought of that Blacksmith: So you're new to metal working huh? Apprentice: Yes sir/ma'am. Blacksmith: Right then, I know how to cut your teeth, since you're just getting started you're gonna want a treadle hammer. There's some scrap out back, lets get started. Its an idea Thomas, not a command. Its a what if scenario to begin with. Why is the thought of someone building something that is readily available (to you, perhaps not them) such a hard pill for you to swallow? If they don't want to build it, then this thread isn't something they're going to want to learn from anyway. I swear when I started this thread, thinking I was sharing a simple idea and linking to many others in the same train of thought, I never thought it would turn into getting bashed repeatedly. At this point I'd just assume admin delete the entire thread.

That was an argument in the other thread too. Post vises are too cheap and available to worry about building. For some people that may be the case. For those where it is not the case or for those people that really like making things there are threads like this one and the other. For instance, if you have someone that is new to metal working, and you have the scrap to build one. They can do several things. Learn to cut metal Learn to Weld Learn to recycle other materials Learn the value of a little bit of elbow grease After its all said and done, chances are they learned how NOT to do certain things while cutting metal, welding etc. And they wind up with a usable tool in the end. May not last the hundred of years some of these old post vises have. But they learned. *shrugs* just my school of thought.

ThomasPowers: How well does that caster stand up to being pounded on by a 4# hammer?" Thomas I don't know how well that caster stands up to being pounded on by a 4# hammer. I do know that they hold up just fine being pounded on by a 2lb (32oz) framing hammer. I've never seen the "caster" setup in a smithing setting. It was simply a combination of an old carpenters vise idea moved over to smithing. Casters have been being used for years on carpenters vises (the one on my grandfathers vise was a flimsy old white plastic one. If you really had that much of a problem with it, you could cut out the I-Beam and mount a boat roller or something with heavier hardware. You could even cut out the I-beam near the face and bring the face of the vise in over the outer lip of the I-beam so that the impact is driving more on the upright beam than the moveable jaw. This seams like a very minor engineering problem to me. Example of a wheeled carpenters vise. "ThomasPowers: I'd not suggest other folks try it until you have built it and used it for a year or two and worked any possible bugs out of the system. I personally would not publish a design that's not been tested and suggest it as a good way for other people to go." Well, near as I can tell, YOU didn't. But as near as I can tell, I didn't either. I don't claim this to be the best vise ever designed or "Its gonna be the wave of the future and no blacksmith is ever gonna want regular post vise again!" that would just be goofy. What I claimed this to be, was a combination of different Ideas when building a vise. I linked to the original thread because I found all the ideas there to be interesting. My hope was that someone would see this and go "that's a good idea, but this needs to be made this way" or even if it was "This is never gonna work and this is why!" would be fine. At least then there would be something creative and or constructive gained out of the comment. The comment above you was informative, suggesting screw jacks and old office chairs as a means to recycle an old ACME screw. I thought it would be good to post this idea and get feedback BEFORE building it. Most engineers I know do just that, they show their plans to one another and ask for help, for ideas, for a 2nd person to take a look and tell them what's missing or what needs tweaked. The whole 2 heads are better than one thing. I'll edit it though, so that its clearer that this IDEA that I'm sharing has not been tested.

Could setup 2 frames side by side with one larger motor. Instead of the motor itself being moved when you step on the treadle, you'd engage a tension pulley on each end attached to the normal drive pulley. would mean 2 belts and linkage between the 2 etc. Basically the hammers would be built in the same fashion but you could have 1 motor (power source) driving both units. The drive drum itself would have a pulley attached to it that when engaged put tension on the belt and against the tire, otherwise it would just freespin. Granted, this is only helpful if the cost of a 2nd motor is your main issue :)

Dunno about the vise, but that is a MONSTER blower on that forge table.

I want to start by saying that most of what I'm about to post has already been posted in another thread. I just wanted to add my own idea's to it, or take multiple ideas and put them together. To see where I got a lot of my ideas see the original post on how to "Build Your Own Leg Vise" So my take on this is simple. This vise doesn't require a spring as it opens with the screw and due to the design of the vise, the vise face is always parallel to one another. It still allows you to build interchangeable faces for different applications and allows the bottom to be either mounted to a plate and onto a base or to have a "quick mount" like the one suggested on the "Vertical Vise". Also, I have the "required parts" list comprised of things that most scrappers come by very easily. For the record, what I have drawn (since you can't tell from the drawing) the back "upright" section of the vise itself would be made from either 3" or 4" I-beam. The L shaped vise face arm would be made of 1 1/2" solid square stock or 2" square tubing. I know that the tubing might flex a bit, but for MOST of us, I really don't think the amount of flex you might get would be problematic. Its a bit of a crude drawing, but instead of a hinge at the bottom it uses casters. the caster on the back of the vise supports the weight of the face as it expands and helps keep it even. The caster on the front of the vise supports the weight as well as acts as a bearing for which the guide to roll on. Harbor Freight sells these cast iron casters for between $3 and $7 depending on size The screw seemed to me at first like the most complicated part of a vise build. There again, the question of easy availability was answered in the Build Your Own Leg Vise post. The answer for me, was an old threaded barbell. You can buy them at almost every thrift store around for a couple dollars or you can get one new from Wally World for around $20. The advantage, however much you spend, you get 2 screws, AND 2 nuts. You'll see on my vise that I use 2 nuts on the design but you don't have to. You could just as easily use a washer or something welded to the screw to open the vise up and just use the 1 nut on the back. You'll also need a washer or something welded to the end of the screw to prevent it from coming completely out. My idea for the "hand wheel" was to use a little 10lb weight, or make one. Whichever you consider easiest. You could also just use a bar if that's more your style. If you were really ambitious you could also make this a double screw vise like the Fisher, by using a 1" bore sprocket with an appropriate chain. Most bike sprockets are 7/8" so it wouldn't take much to center them and re-drill them where you could use regular old bicycle chain. "Parts List" 4 foot of 3" or 4" I-Beam Since the passthrough of the face can be anywhere along the length of the vise, I would say enough 1 1/2" Solid Square or 2" square tube to make the bend and pass through and extend 1" past the back caster when the vise is fully opened. An acme screw and nut 2 Rigid Casters The rest is scrap bits here and there, and you just sort of put it together. Heres an image of the basic drawing of "The Vertical Vise" A lot of people will say this would cost more to make than it is worth. And you'd be right. Just recently I picked up a 5" post vise for $25. However, I have been looking for a while and really didn't have much to spend. In the time I had been looking I was able to come up with the materials to make this vise. Now that I have a post vise I will probably re-purpose the tubing and I-Beam to make anvil stands. Later on I might build a double screw version of this vise with big beefy jaws just to have one. But my point is this. Sometimes you can't find the tool but you might have enough of this sitting around to put one together. Or a blacksmith teaching someone else might not have a vise for them to use all the time but may have enough scrap iron to build something like mine or like the vertical vise. If you want to build something, build it. Its about using what you have, and having fun with it.

I did actually, he said he didn't know if anything else would turn up but that there were a few tongs that he might find lying around during the cleanup process. So hopefully we'll be able to get something sorted. I've looked for ways to date these but I think the stampings are too far eroded to really get much.. I can't find a SN on the HB and the PW doesn't seem to have England on it anywhere *shrugs*. Doesn't matter in the long run, its just a tool, its just sort of neat to know.

Well BM454 I'm glad you didn't. We were using makeshift anvil's so its really nice to have something proper (with good rebound) to work on. My makeshift anvil worked just fine, it just didn't have any rebound to speak of.

OK, so as many of you know my brother in law and I have been looking for a good anvil for a while now. The other day I happened to see that Stewart had posted an ebay listing for a haybudden in Alabama. The listing had already ended and with it, I thought, my luck. Turns out I was wrong, I sent the gentleman an email asking if he still had the anvil. He did, and not only did he still have it, they had found a 2nd one in his mom and dad's basement. The first anvil is a 130 lb Hay Budden, in decent shape. The 2nd anvil is a 153 lb Peter Wright with a good face and a slightly swayed horn. Upon departing to meet the man, I called him to let him know to be expecting me, and he informed me that he had now found a 5" post vise. The first picture is a little blurry as the camera was still a bit fogged from coming out of the A/C into the heat. When everything was said and done, we picked up both anvils and the post vise for $375

I'd use it as is, if its steel it should work harden as a worst case scenario. And if you have the capability to make an anvil like this, then you have the capability to mill it out and put a tool steel top on it later if needed. So go with my approach... Hammer now, work out kinks later.

Check this out, its a small Fisher anvil with a new face attached. Ugly, but interesting none the less.

Also, I believe it said it drops at a 4 degree angle (very slight downward pitch) so that it doesn't have to have a cap on top of the chimney so that it flows better. There's already several posts with Side Drafts referenced. Side draft Hood Forge with Hood Suggestions