bajajoaquin Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 I was doing a bit of research on anvils recently, and came across pictures of a 1,000 pound Refflinghaus in use. Of course, I want one. But, other than general tool lust, is there any real reason to have an anvil of that size? Bigger anvils are better when using strikers, I understand, but at some point, wouldn't a power hammer be more effective? Or, is there something that is better done with people and multiple 10- or 25-lb hammers? I mean, the $7000 price tag on that monster would buy a pretty nice 350 lb anvil and a power hammer. And yes, I still want one anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 is there any real reason to have an anvil of that size? No one can walk off with it when visiting your shop. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 There is a size vs efficiency factor as a large anvil puts more of your work into deforming the metal and less into "moving" the anvil. It is quite noticeable after I spend several days working on a "travel anvil" and then go back and work in the shop and work on the 500 pound anvil. However It's probably not that noticeable between a 400 pound anvil and a 500 pound anvil...as I recall a "shop anvil" for a professional was suggested to be about 250 pounds in one old source. Most of us don't need to weld up battleship driveshafts; but the "more is better" and "bragging rights" is still strong in the hobby! I would definitely agree that a smaller anvil and a powerhammer would be the better deal than solely a large anvil. OTOH One of my smallest anvils is right beside the behemoth as I like the thin tail on it for doing some jobs---more so than using a bridge on the large one. And having a 200# anvil walk off once---it's great to have one you don't worry about leaving on you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 She grew legs did she? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe C B Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 This remarkable video will answer the question... Joe B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajajoaquin Posted November 24, 2010 Author Share Posted November 24, 2010 Yes, that's exactly what I mean. We don't generally make anchor chain by hand these days. Striking seems to be done for reasons other than production work. Big anvils are better for maximizing the force of your blows, but I suspect there's diminishing returns for a solo smith swinging a 3- or 5-lb hammer. I've got no problems with buying the biggest old anvil you come across, or having the wherewithal to purchase a giant new one. I'm just curious if there are some real things that strikers do better than power hammers. Because on a cost basis, it seems like that would be the decision: really xxxxxxxx big anvil and lots of labor, or a power hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 This remarkable video will answer the question... Joe B So... apparently the answer is... there is no answer? I DO find that remarkable! Ohh...It took a while for that to show up on my screen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 on a resent trip to Alaska I went to the museum in Juno there is a small blacksmithing display the anvil weight 50 lb and the bellows was small I guess if you have to lug your stuff around on horseback or dog sled the 1000# anvil just will not work. is bigger better or is some one overcompensating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 My largest anvil weighs 5000# what are you saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 At what stage does an anvil become a monster? Interestingly although I have several anvils I tend to use the biggest and the smalles of mine and tend to ignore the mid sized ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy seale Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 big toys are just a testosterone thing... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 My anvil is a 100 lbs. It serves me well. Do I need a 1000 lb. anvil. No. Would I have one if I could afford it. Probably so. Why? I'm a man. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajajoaquin Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 At what stage does an anvil become a monster? Interestingly although I have several anvils I tend to use the biggest and the smalles of mine and tend to ignore the mid sized ones. That's a good question. I was reacting to the new Refflinghaus thousand-pounders, but I didn't think it through that much. I guess it's about the money as much as anything. If you're spending that kind of dough, either you can afford it, period, or you're making a choice based on relative utility. But let's say a thousand pounds, arbitrarily. For $5,000 to $8,000, is there anything they do better than a 400-lb Peddinghaus and a 65-lb big BLU? (Feel free to adjust these numbers for the sake of argument.) Like my post about rebound and hardness, I am really interested in why, not just what, if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 With the right tooling there is not much a striker can do that a power hammer can't. That being said I think anything over about 400 lbs is just showing off, especially for the kind of work that 99.9% of smiths do these days. If you were forge welding complicated wrought iron shapes with a team of 4 strikers yes a larger anvil would be a wise investment but who is doing that. I use a 325 lb anvil there have been a few time it would have been nicer if it was a bit bigger but its not anchored down. If it were It would probably be perfect. It also depends on the proportions of the anvil some very large anvils are not very well proportioned . The Horn too fat with not enough taper or too thick a heel at least in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 That's a good question. I was reacting to the new Refflinghaus thousand-pounders, but I didn't think it through that much. I guess it's about the money as much as anything. If you're spending that kind of dough, either you can afford it, period, or you're making a choice based on relative utility. But let's say a thousand pounds, arbitrarily. For $5,000 to $8,000, is there anything they do better than a 400-lb Peddinghaus and a 65-lb big BLU? (Feel free to adjust these numbers for the sake of argument.) Like my post about rebound and hardness, I am really interested in why, not just what, if you know what I mean. I would buy a say-mak and straighten on an old section of I-beam seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Don't forget that the strikers are getting paid too,insurance, taxes, sometimes don't show up, get sick, etc..................... My biggest anvil is a 306# Sodefors, and it has done well for me. I am not doing large sections, and if I was I would be shopping for a power hammer. I am thinking that the huge anvils are carryovers from the industrial revolution when the labor pool was available. Now with power hammers, who needs a striker? Would I own one if I came across a sweet deal? Yep, just so I could say I own one that big, and I have the forklift to move it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 My primary anvil is a 185# HB...do I NEED one bigger, No. Do I WANT one bigger...maybe. Francis Whitiaker once asked can you do more with you 200+ anvil than I can with my 150#? (Not the exact words but the exact thought) My anvil is plenty for what I do and I dare say it would be plenty for the majority of the work most do. MO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Here is the reality... A good smith will figure out a way to do a good job with what he has. That being said there is a case for just about every anvil... Its sure nice to have a dainty anvil for some work, but you can always make a bick or tool that fits in your bigger anvil... Its nice to have one with a cone horn or a thin tail sometimes, other times its nice to have a swollen or clip horn... it would be nice to have a side step for things, a big pritchal for punching...... My "big anvil" answer came watching a demo done by a pair of guys forging some fair size but not huge elements... They had two anvils at the station... One maybe 125lbs, the other 450lbs..... it had nothing to do with the demo but I was amazed to see in real time the difference in how the metal moved depending on where they worked... I dont know if you could personally see the difference as much if you where working as you could sitting in the crowd but I was blown away... It really seemed like twice as much happened on the big anvil... I think its something like hammers.... Way back when I had three hammers for smithing... A big ball peen, a 4lb short handled sledge and "engineers" hammer which doubled as a rounding hammer.... With those three hammer I always had the right hammer for the job. It was just a quick grab and off to work... Now I have maybe 60 hammers.... And guess what, I never have the right hammer... I can spend 10 minutes searching for the correct hammer for the job and end up having to "settle" for the one that is closest to what I need... If you have an anvil, maybe its not ideal but if its the one you got, its the correct one for the job... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Let's cut the XXXX. Bigger is better! Why? Because it's bigger and that's better! I have a 355# HB and I say all you guys with 354#'ers or lighter are a buncha girlie men. As for Stewart with his 700# beast I say, "do I really need an anvil that big?" ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Let's cut the XXXX. Bigger is better! Why? Because it's bigger and that's better! I have a 355# HB and I say all you guys with 354#'ers or lighter are a buncha girlie men. As for Stewart with his 700# beast I say, "do I really need an anvil that big?" Mmmmm Well I have a 500, a 450, a 415 and a 400.... and have to say anyone with only a 355 obviously could not be taken seriously :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajajoaquin Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 my second largest anvil is a 400 lb fisher, which is a very nice anvil. However, there are some jobs I do where that anvil is too small, believe it or not. I make plate hooks out of inch and a half plate, that I bend in a very large vise, and finish on my 700 lb anvil, with a striker. Big work, big anvils, simple as that. That makes sense. It sounds like something that by shape or design works better with strikers than a power hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 This is a pretty entertaining thread Actually its 1245 lbs The reason ? I would , I could, so I did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 This is a pretty entertaining thread Actually its 1245 lbs The reason ? I would , I could, so I did 1245 hu? Id have to stack three anvils up to weigh that :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fciron Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 I used a 175 pound anvil for years and when I got access to a 250 pounder I was clearly able to tell the difference. When working stock over a 1/2 inch or so it feels like I am getting a lot more done working on the big anvil. I can see that if you had a couple of guys striking that it might make sense to go to a silly big anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zampilot Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Only because I found one a lot bigger than any other around here, and it has a big open flat table so no 'aim small miss small'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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