D Ravizza Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Hi, I recently purchased a Champion No. 1 power hammer. I am looking for some information about these machines. Especially the weight of the hammer and the overall weight of the machine. I am also interested in hearing opinions on the quality/usability of these machines. Thanks Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 according to the book "pounding out the profits" the #1 was a 65 lb head weight it looks like a diecent hammer ..i know of a couple of people that own one and seem to like um.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I have a #1. Has a fairly snappy blow, add a brake for a 1 hit wonder. Has some trouble (as with all mechanical hammers) with too-thick material/tooling requiring frequent pitman adjustment. Watch out for over tightening of the lower dovetail wedge as there is no sow block and I have seen pictures of several #1's with broken or missing front lower female dovetails. The dovetail is integral to the cast frame so hard to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Ravizza Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Thanks for the info guys. One more question, what size motor is needed for the hammer? There is currently no motor installed on it. The hammer is still buried deep in the old shop where I bought it. The guy thinks the motor is around somewhere. I would like to know what horse power to look for. Thanks again Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I run mine on a 1.5hp motor but it's got a newly machined shaft and fresh babbit in the bearing cups and I reduced the driving pulley diam. slightly to run the hammer slower for using top tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Ravizza Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 What dia. pulley did you use? I assume the motor is a standard 1725 rpm. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Ive had two #1's.... Best little mechanical hammer I have ever owned (ok well Ive only owned those two.. but I still think they are great hammers) I ran mine with a 1.5HP as well and it seemed to have plenty of power to do the job. Mine used a relocated jack pulley and the motor mounted below.. the drive pulley moved outside the rear bearing on a longer shaft. Had excellent control and with tuning of the factory crank wheel brake you could get single blows. I think the #1 will do about one and a half times the work of a 50lb LG... The leaf spring gives a snappy blow and the little extra weight doesn't hurt either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrismetalsmith Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 You have an excellent hammer there! I have spent about 2000 hours running champion hammers in my 12 years as a full time smith. These are my recomendations for the champion hammer I would run it on a larger motor for production work. I have an #0 and I burnt two 1.5 hp motors. I have it running on a 3 hp and have had no problems since. I rebuilt two #0's and one #1. The best thing you can do with these champion hammers is oil the heck out of them. The only place you should not oil is on the drive belt surface area. One main thing to do. Make sure the toggle arms. The four arms that conect the ram to the spring arm, are drawn up so they are almost level. Not level. About 3/4" slop. you can measure this by holding a straight edge across the pins holding the arms at the spring, and the main pin through the ram should be about 3/4" of an inch below the straight edge. Play with this to find the optimum stroke for your hammer. This will also be affected by how far down you set the whole ram and spring arm assembly. To start tunning I would set that halfway with the double set screw holding the main pin. Going back to the toggle arms. If they are too sloppy, the hammer will skip or double hit. When they are too tight you stand a good chance of snapping the toggle arm at the spring pin junction. One other member recomended not over driving the bottom die wedge. RIGHT ON! My hammer was repaired due to this long before I got it. It is much better to re tighten the wedges every so often than to crack that front piece out. When mine was repaired they set the cracked piece back in place, drilled and tapped for three 3/4" bolts, bolted the 3 bolts after that, then they ground a V all the way around the 3 outside planes and welded it. I have had no problems with it, but I baby it there. If you get the arms tunned correctly you will love this hammer. And yes as onother member said it will out work a little giant any day. The first 4 years I smithed with a blacksmith who owned a little giant. After switching to the champion I will never go back. Have fun and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulF Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I have the same champion hammer you folks have (#1 -75 pound Ram). I've been using it with a sort of funky motor setup. Harrismetalsmith, It sounds as though you have quite a bit of experience with these hammers. Could you recomend to D Ravizza and I the best way to attach, and or rig up, the motor? I have a heavy 1 horse Century (very old but a lot of tourque) . I've been looking for a good way to connect it to the hammer via belts shafts and idelers. What I'm using now is not that great. PaulF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Thanks as well Harris; I have a #0 Champion and was wanting to tune it up before using it in the new shop extension. Any other suggestions for tweaks before it's pedal to the concrete? Mine has the original motor mount that mounts off the frame near the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrismetalsmith Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Thomas, very cool that you have the original motor mount. A mentor of mine has a #1 with the original motor mount. I did not have that luxury, so my motor mount was this. For my foundation I dug a 2 foot deep cube. When I poured the concrete, I set a very heavy thick pipe straight up about 6" behind the rear of the hammer. The pipe came up about a foot above the hammer. That gave a sturdy base for the motor mount to come off. I welded up a motor bracket and line shaft bracket, off of that heavy pipe. My drive motor has a V belt pulley that drives another V belt on a line shaft. The line shaft is held in place by two pillow block bearings. On the other end of the line shaft is a custom pulley I made on the lathe. That pulley is 2" wide and 4" in diameter. I use 2" wide cotton belting with alligator strips as the main belt that goes around the hammer drive pulley. The custom pulley I made has 1/4" thick plate flanges to keep the belt from working off the sides. The flanges are probably 5" diameter. This is probably not clear enough in writing so if you like I will post pictures on the blog portion of my web site, harrismetalsmith.com. I will also measure the diameters of the two V belt pulleys so you can get the right speed. The pulley set up should be the similar for a #0 or a #1, because the receiving pulley on those hammers is the same size. You may need to change one size to slow the #1 down. I copied my pulley set up off one of my mentors in PA, who had been running Champions since the mid 70's. He was the one who sold me on their use. As for other suggestions make sure the arm pins fit well in the spring arm holes. Where the spring wraps around the pin. Those pins should be no more than a 1/16" smaller than the spring holes. If they are sloppy the hammer won't hit right. One of the #0's I tunned had like 1 1/4" pins in a 1 3/4" hole. WAY to sloppy. The dovetail ways should be a little looser than you might think. Very scientific sounding, I know. But the best thing to do with them is after you have the hammer up and running. Move them in and out with the set screws until they are snug but not so snug as to stop the ram mid way in its stroke. The most major thing of course with any power hammer is the main shaft babbit bearings. If they are not right that is the first thing you should fix. The Little Giant book has great info on how to do that along with proper tolerances. I guess we could listen to a Little Giant for something Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Ravizza Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share Posted April 16, 2009 Harris, that is some very helpful information. It sounds like you really know these machines well. I am very pleased to hear that the Champions are such nice machines. I believe my machine also has the original motor mount. Again, its so buried that I am not certain. It would be neat to see your set up. My machine will need some work before its operable again. The biggest problem is that the casting that contains the dovetail adjustment screws is broken in two spots. As you can see in the picture the old blacksmith made his own repairs using straps and wedges. I looked carefully at this and I am confident that it can be fixed. This casting seems to be bolted and pinned to the main frame. One possibility is machining a replacement piece or repairing the existing one. Any thoughts? Thanks again everyone. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Guys- I think that the #1 (according to Pounding Out The Profits) is a 65# hammer. No big deal, it hits like a 75 #'er. I too have an oddball motor mount (with a gear box) and will take photos tomorrow if I remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwczerr Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I've been following this thread with much interest, and I've learned some valuable things about the Champion line of hammers. They don't seem to be too common and there isn't that much discussion of them.....this is probably the first thread I've seen devoted to Champions! I purchased a #2 from the local DOT a couple of years ago, but I don't have it operational yet. It took me 2.5 years to finish my shop that will be home to the hammer and I'm just now moving in and hope (fingers crossed) that I could get the hammer running this summer or fall. I've included some pics of the hammer at its orginal location, in transport, and at home. It's a sizeable machine - I think the #2 is a 135lb class machine, the top of the pulley is about 8' off the ground, and the scales we crossed (pre & post hammer) put the weight at 3,900-4,000lbs. I'm aware of one other #2 that a smith in KY obtained about the same time I did, and his is now up and running. I can't wait.......! One question....I don't see any adjustments on the toggle arms to adjust the sag in the ram. I'm sure mine is over 3/4" of an inch. Without the threaded ends on the toggle arms how do I adjust this? Any thoughts, or should I just try it like it is? Thanks! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulF Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 David, I wonder if Champion made hammers in the 1000-or beter sizes? Your hammer looks like it could work today when you have things hooked up with the power. Great pictures. Mabe we should have all the champion owners start an idea exchange! I sure hope folks who know these hammers would help! I know, the hammer I have, could be tuned to work as well as any import!!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Ravizza Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 David, Your hammer looks great! It sure is a big guy. It looks like its in very good condition. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Falcon 72 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Can these hammers be stopped at the bottom to hold material? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Can these hammers be stopped at the bottom to hold material? No, a mechanical hammer cannot squeeze like an air or steam hammer. Most have to be set with the dies apart to run properly so there is some minimum stock size that can't even be touched when the dies are at rest in the lowermost position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOC Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Hi guys, interesting discussion. I have yet seen two Champion hammers here in Oz. I didn't see them run but am sure they are able. i'll try attaching photos; is there a power hammer section in the Gallery? i'm so new - haven't had time to look... Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I recently purchased a Champion No. 1 hammer and reading with interest on how to operate the hammer. It has been sitting for the last 20 yrs. in a machine shop in Seattle, Wa. They shoved it outside a couple months ago. (get it out of the way) I talked to some of the people who operated it back then and said it worked like a charm. I would like to see pictures of other No. 1. Whatever the crew has to share I'm reading. This is my first post here. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 So your the guy who got my hammer! Well good for you... I wont hold it against you as long as you put it to work. That Champion is in super shape. The guides are like new in the thing and with that overhead jackshaft it should give very nice control. One thing that was wonky on that hammer was the brake did not engage when the treadle was up, It might return back to where it should be one the motor is in place and under tension. What I would do with that hammer is carfully scribe the outline of the smaller die onto the bigger die and then take them into a machine shop that can mate them up and flatten them out. I would do a combination style die with the fuller at front. if you change the motor its pretty critical to get the speed right so take note of the pulley diameter on that 5 horse. I ran my last one with a 110V 1.5HP motor and it worked perfectly. If it was going to be in severe use I would step up to a 2HP Once you get it timed right, the brake engaging and the toggles adjusted that hammer should give you single blow capability. One thing that will help down the road is make your self up a set of wood blocks to set the working hight of the upper die. at rest you want that die to be about a 1/8 above the thickness your working for the best control and hardest hit. I kept mine adjusted so when you rolled the machine over by hand the upper die would come within about 1/4" of the lower die and I didnt move it up until I got over 3/4 stock unless I was going to do real fine work... Anyway congrats on the new hammer.... Your going to love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Thanks Monstermetal, I hear their were a couple people there when the gates opened. Perhaps you were one of them. Monday morning I made the phone call by mistake and got the owner and we closed the deal right then. Lucky is all I can say. Thanks for the information on the hammer. Love those little tiddy bits of information. Sure beats trial and errrrrror. By Tuesday P.M. the hammer was all green from top to bottom. Only too 5 hrs. 4 buckets of soapy water and 2 cans of gunk. Looks very nice, now to get it into the shop, put white mans magic to it(electricity) and hit the start button. Are you using a No. 1 hammer now at your shop? If you get to the NWBA spring conference (which is in Mount Vernon) I live 3 mi. West of town, you have an open invite to inspect. Cheers Germs create disease like flies make garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yep... I was there at 7:15 and made the deal with the shop foreman to buy the hammer.. Talked with the guy who was going to load it... had everything done but pay for it.... When we walked up to the owners office he was hanging up the phone with you... Which was still 20 min before they opened.... But I am glade to see it getting some love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I should clarify in the earlier post about setting the die position... that 1/4 clear between the die is with the crank on its lowest possible position on the flywheel and with the toggle arms pulled good and tight on the spring and a very well adjusted hammer... Most hammers with a little slop in them you would need more like 3/4 of a inch to get a solid wack but yet have a light touch... and thats if your forging 1/4 or 3/8 stock... if your forging 1" bar you would need more like 1 3/4 clear at idle and the lowest position... Thats one of those things that really impacts performance and you just need to play with your hammer to see what works best... start with half a dozen 5/8 or 3/4 square bars that are a foot long with a center punch mark at 8" ( if you dont want to hold it with tongs make them as long as you want I guess) get them all up to temp and consistently forge out as long of taper as you can in one heat from the center punch mark... make an adjustment and go to the next one.... listen to how and where in its stroke the hammer hits and how hard of blows it lands... and it it is double tapping or missing a beat (way out of tune) its surprising how drastic of change you can get... also it will show you directly what your adjustments do Also I said I would do combo dies on that hammer and the only reason for that is because unlike a little giant the center of the tup weight is centered in the skinny of the die so working on either end has much less of a negative effect on the hammer.. and since it sounds likely this will be your primary hammer and its relatively small ( but capable ... a 65lb Champion that is well tuned will almost do the work of a run of the mill 100lb little Giant though) its sure nice to have fullering dies to quickly break down material and blend transitions..... If you have any questions Id be happy to help... I have owned two #1's and done some pretty major work on them including pouring new bearings in one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Thanks Monstermetal, I hear their were a couple people there when the gates opened. Perhaps you were one of them. Monday morning I made the phone call by mistake and got the owner and we closed the deal right then. Lucky is all I can say. Thanks for the information on the hammer. Love those little tiddy bits of information. Sure beats trial and errrrrror. By Tuesday P.M. the hammer was all green from top to bottom. Only too 5 hrs. 4 buckets of soapy water and 2 cans of gunk. Looks very nice, now to get it into the shop, put white mans magic to it(electricity) and hit the start button. Are you using a No. 1 hammer now at your shop? If you get to the NWBA spring conference (which is in Mount Vernon) I live 3 mi. West of town, you have an open invite to inspect. Cheers Germs create disease like flies make garbage. Not only will I be at the conference it sounds like I'll get a shop tour :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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