Francis Trez Cole Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Here are some before and after pictures. My slab is poured and ready to start putting it back together and get hammering. I stripped it down to bare metal and re painted with primer then gloss black. I still have to make a motor mount and foot peddles. I also refaced the dies with hard facing rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Looking good! I picked up some industrial paint at the Re-Store so I guess my hammer will end up whatever colour they are. Gotta get the cans re-shook well before I can open them and check. I like the highlighting of the cast proud words you did too. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 this is one of my favorite threads in here. A very good friend of mine, a blacksmith named Jim Kieffer, has several models of Champion Trip Hammers that he has used for decades. After seeing how well these hammers work, I decided to buy a hammer similar to his. There were a lot of companies who manufactured champion-style hammers, employing the champion style of leaf-spring actuating. Luckily, I bought a hammer very similar to a champion, called a williams and white. Williams and White hammers look almost identical to a champion. Mine was modified, many years ago, by winding canvas flat belting between the ends of the leaf springs through the hammer head. One would think this arrangement would be flimsy, but to the contrary............the canvas hasn't worn out or loosened in 33 years of heavy pounding in my shop. Someone posted a video of another Williams and White running full speed on another thread in iforgeiron, and that hammer still had the original idler arms similar to a champion, which leads me to believe that someone modified my hammer when the original idler arms wore out. I do not know why there are so few champion hammers, but from what I have seen, this style of hammer is excellent. I am posting several pictures of me working on my williams and white, for comparison with champions. That could be original... It was common practice on sheet metal hammers such as those made by Yoder, Quikwork and Pettingel... It is better than a hard linkage because it really allows for a snap... Much like the hourglass affair on a Beaudry... And although i have owned two Champion hammers and feel they are some of the best small mechanicals.. i think the Willams and White better yet... The Williams white are heaver and more industrial yet have as good or better control... There are not many around as small as yours either.. Id say your real lucky to have that machine! Thanks for the pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrismetalsmith Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Francis, the hammer looks sharp. I like the paint job. Nice job. Hope you get it pounding soon. As I stated in my last post. I measured the pulleys. The motor pulley is 5" the middle pulley conected to the line shaft is 8". That is the o.d. of the pulleys. That is what I used for the #0. For the #1 I used the same size middle pulley, but the motor pulley was reduced 4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 here are all the parts layed out ready to be put back together. The patten calles for leather spacers. I bought a apron from harbor freight and cut to fit all the pieces. Harrismetalsmith thanks I have two items left to make a stand for the motor and the foot peddles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Available Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Thanks for the info guys. One more question, what size motor is needed for the hammer? There is currently no motor installed on it. The hammer is still buried deep in the old shop where I bought it. The guy thinks the motor is around somewhere. I would like to know what horse power to look for. Thanks again Dan I run mine on a 1.5hp motor but it's got a newly machined shaft and fresh babbit in the bearing cups and I reduced the driving pulley diam. slightly to run the hammer slower for using top tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.pierson Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 All, Was looking through Ebay and saw this hammer in PA. http://cgi.ebay.com/Blower-Forge-Blacksmith-Trip-hammer-power-anvil-antique-/110602476281?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c06bdaf9 It is $610 at this time so I thought I would throw it out there. This seemed like the correct thread to put it in. The owner is in Montana but the hammer is in PA. at the in-laws. Brian Pierson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Looks to be in good condition: has the proper dies, has a jackshaft for using a modern motor, has the older type of bail. Good Luck! (I'm always amused by folks posting the starting price on an auction as "something is cheap" as it's the ending price that counts! I've bought two Champions so far one for $700 in working condition in 1990 and one for $600 in fair condition in 2010; both were found by asking around.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.pierson Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Good Luck. If I was closer, I would be bidding on it also. It looks like exactly what I want. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 Here is the finished hammer the next step is the stand for the motor and the foot peddles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Well finished up my motor stand today and foot peddles it runs great. one more coat of paint and start hammering, Was a real fun project and it runns smooth and not real nosie Thanks Larry and all for all your pointers and tips it really helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 thanks it needs a little fine tuning but it runs great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 here a couple of video's I posted on you tube. it is the 1902 Champion power hammer I re built http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Cu14VBjkZF4http://www.youtube.c...h?v=veJMyY3i3Es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrismetalsmith Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hammer looks real nice Francis! Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s meyer Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hi I thought I would post my new hammer. It's a #1 that I bought off of Clyde. It's the hammer that he and monstermetal talk about earlyer in this thread. I just go it monted to the foundation and the overhead pullys back on. I had to cut away part of the rafteres to make it all fit. The foudation is 40" square and 3' deep I made a reebar box and used 20 80# bags of concreat then there are 6x6 beems that are bolted together with allthread and sucured to the foudation with 3/4 allthread the hammer is fastened to the beems with 3/4 allthread that is screwed into plates that atach to the underside of the beems. I am working on combination dies and wating for a belt for the motor. I hope to have it running next week. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Cool hammer but I would be very careful when cutting out the bottom chord of your rafters. They are the primary load bearing tension members when the roof is under load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s meyer Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I reinforced where I cut the rafters and I will be replacing the section I cut away. I didn't want to cut them but there was no other way to get the pullyes into the frame. once I replace the cut out section the pullyes won't hit. I spent more time with the rafters and removing the wedges for the dies. than moving and making the foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 thats a big green monster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s meyer Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Francis Ya the overhead frame and pullyes are big. I thought about doing away with them but when I bought it we test ran it on a 1/2 or 3/4 horse motor and with all that rotating mass it actualy turned it over with little efort and the clutch worked real smooth. So I figured if it isn't broke why fix it. I like your hammer I saw the video you posted. Great job fixing it up. I think mine is about the same vintage with the same old style tredal. I tried responding to the mesage you sent me but I couldn't figure out how. I couldn't find a serial # but the pat. date is 1902. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakksmyth Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Hi Everyone, Like the OP and a few others in this thread, we have managed to get hold of a Champion #1 Spring hammer, but unfortunately, the spring that is fitted(looks like a leaf spring off a light truck) is totally wrong and doesn't allow the hammer to work as it was originally designed. Basically, there is no gentle start up, it hammers hard and is difficult to moderate the force from gentle to hard. We have a spring maker who will make us an original design spring set but we have no specs. I have done a bit of searching on the net without any luck, and I'm hoping one of you folks who own one of these beasts come help us out with some specs on the spring setup as far as spring dimensions go. Our association is slowly getting a work area setup with all the bits and pieces to start teaching blacksmithing. The spring hammer will be invaluable to us and we would like to get it working properly. Any help in the way of measurements or close up photo's etc would really be appreciated by all of us down under. Regards, Rob Kenning Secretary Artist Blacksmiths Association South Australia. Here's a shot of the hammer as purchased... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimw Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Hi Everyone, Like the OP and a few others in this thread, we have managed to get hold of a Champion #1 Spring hammer, but unfortunately, the spring that is fitted(looks like a leaf spring off a light truck) is totally wrong and doesn't allow the hammer to work as it was originally designed. Basically, there is no gentle start up, it hammers hard and is difficult to moderate the force from gentle to hard. We have a spring maker who will make us an original design spring set but we have no specs. I have done a bit of searching on the net without any luck, and I'm hoping one of you folks who own one of these beasts come help us out with some specs on the spring setup as far as spring dimensions go. Our association is slowly getting a work area setup with all the bits and pieces to start teaching blacksmithing. The spring hammer will be invaluable to us and we would like to get it working properly. Any help in the way of measurements or close up photo's etc would really be appreciated by all of us down under. Regards, Rob Kenning Secretary Artist Blacksmiths Association South Australia. Here's a shot of the hammer as purchased... I can help you. Your springs, not original equipment, are way too long. That makes your hammer hit way too hard. The rest distance between your trip hammer dies, with the hammer TURNED OFF, should be two fingerwidths, Because your spring is way too long, try setting the rest distance between top and bottom hammer dies at three or four fingerwidths. YOu might just gain much more control, and not have to have new springs made. Worth a try? HECK YEA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakksmyth Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Thanks for the reply. I guess we can have a play around resetting the distance and see how we go. Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 here is a pdf of the patten this will help a lot of youpower hammer patten.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Sorry Francis but that is NOT the proper spring shape or linkage for this type of champion power hammer. Perhaps S MYER or someone else who has champion could make a drawing and give dimensions for the proper spring, so the person asking the question isn't going round in circles to get his hammer up and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrismetalsmith Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Sorry Francis but that is NOT the proper spring shape or linkage for this type of champion power hammer. Perhaps S MYER or someone else who has champion could make a drawing and give dimensions for the proper spring, so the person asking the question isn't going round in circles to get his hammer up and running. The only problem with blanket statements, is they don't always cover every detail. What Francis posted is the original patent for this hammer. I have seen a dozen of these hammers, I personaly own 2, and I've rebuilt 4. That would be a stretch in some parts of the country but i live 40 miles from the original factory in Lancaster, Pa. Out of the dozen I have seen 1 hammer did have those original patent arms. I believe Champion changed the springs shortly after aquiring the patent and 98% of the hammers you see have the common style springs. Having said that there are 2 differnent style linkages between the springs and ram. The best is the most common one with the 4 adjustable arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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