Francis Trez Cole Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I t is the original design created by J.B Mclane champion bought the patten in 1911 form him and produced them form 1911-1920 where it was renamed the Hercules. the patten was never complete in 1907 the spring was redesign from a "w" shaped to the bow shape we find today most of my information was found in the book pounding out profits by Douglas Freund pages 182 to 187 I have also tried to contact Champion blower company's historical division since the company has changed hands several times all the information is lost. Doc if you look at the pictures I posted you will see mine was produced after 1911. The real information to find out was how many were produced in a year by champion I have the serial #. Then I can get a more accurate date but a 9 year period is close enough for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Francis Sorry about what was perceived as a blanket statement,but according to another post I was 98% correct :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s meyer Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Hi here are the specs on my spring and toggle set up. The spring is 16 1/4 between the center of the pins and 9 1/2 from the tup pin to the top of the spring pack. There are 6 springs in the pack starting with the top, they are the following lengthes; top one is 5", the next is 29" to the loop of the eye, then 22" then 19 1/2", then 18", and finally 13". The main spring in the pack is about 5/16" thick and the others are around 3/16". The toggles are 10" long and they are adjusted to around 8" long. Hope this helps Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s meyer Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I forgot to mention that the spring pack needs to be reveresed of that found in a car or truck. There is also good information over at anvilfire in ther JYH hammer section. A good drawing and explanation of how to set up this style spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s meyer Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Thanks for the patent info very interesting. I was wondering whare you found your serinal #? I have looked an can't find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrismetalsmith Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 :) Francis Sorry about what was perceived as a blanket statement,but according to another post I was 98% correct The best setup is what you are talking about and the type Meyer has shown in his picture. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakksmyth Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Fantastic Guys. Thanks Steve for the photos and details. And thanks Francis,for the blueprints. I'm sure the info will be more than enough for the spring maker to go by. You all have our thanks. I've seen a few youtube videos of the hammer operating with the same spring setup as Steve has shown and I hope ours will be as smooth when the springs are fitted. The other thing we have to look at is the HP of the motor, it's RPM and the pulley size to get it running at 2,500 RPM. Our unit has had the original motor replaced by the last owner. We saw it in operation before we bought it and he (the previous owner) had been running it for many years with the current motor, but we will need to check the power and speed all the same. Best Regards Rob ABASA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 meyer my serial number was on the front of the hammer head and the front of the anvil under the bottom die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhand Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 hey francis my champion hammer no 1 has serial no 373 stamped on the top die didnt see anything on the anvil. Any idea of when it was made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 2,500 RPM is a little fast.:blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Dies are consumables and can be traded from hammer to hammer, was it stamped on the die or on the holder for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 hey francis my champion hammer no 1 has serial no 373 stamped on the top die didnt see anything on the anvil. Any idea of when it was made? the number should be on the front of the hammer head and the front left top of the anvil mine match 329. This hammer was produced in 1911-1920 At that point the drive wheel was moved to the back of the frame where an electric motor was optional. There is no way to figure out dates of production all records were lost. In the book" pounding out profits" one of the other hammer makers made 5 a week so I guess that would be a fare factor to go by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhand Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 thanks francis those dates are good enough for me. the serial number is on the top die holder not the die. I figured it to be an older hammer because it doesnt have a direction arrow cast on the crank wheel, it doesnt have oiler holes on the ram guides and it is painted gray. The newer ones seem to be green and have arrows and oilers. champion hammers RULE most other mechanical hammers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand Tatro Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hi, I recently purchased a Champion No. 1 power hammer. I am looking for some information about these machines. Especially the weight of the hammer and the overall weight of the machine. I am also interested in hearing opinions on the quality/usability of these machines. Thanks Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand Tatro Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I am seeking information on this wood framed power hammer that has a Hawkeye anvil from a model # 1 but appears to have a Champion style upper half. I have yet to find any id. numbers on the upper half. Any one have any thoughts, coments, or ideals about this hammer such as being able to id. the upper half and if it is a champion what model would it have been and what might be the weight of the hammer head? Thank you for any help you can provide. My original thread is on this page. Armand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I am seeking information on this wood framed power hammer that has a Hawkeye anvil from a model # 1 but appears to have a Champion style upper half. I have yet to find any id. numbers on the upper half. Any one have any thoughts, coments, or ideals about this hammer such as being able to id. the upper half and if it is a champion what model would it have been and what might be the weight of the hammer head? Thank you for any help you can provide. My original thread is on this page. Armand In the book Pounding out the profits By Douglas Freund Isbn# 0-9657652-0-2 there is a short section on Hawkeye hammers. they refrence the hammer style as a Helve hammer with coil-springs there were two pattens issued to the company the first is 693324 and 739992 issued in 1902. for $3.00 you can down load the patten The picture in the book page 109 dose not look like a helve hammer set-up but more like a vertically guided-ram with coil springs. It would be interesting to see the full patten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand Tatro Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 In the book Pounding out the profits By Douglas Freund Isbn# 0-9657652-0-2 there is a short section on Hawkeye hammers. they refrence the hammer style as a Helve hammer with coil-springs there were two pattens issued to the company the first is 693324 and 739992 issued in 1902. for $3.00 you can down load the patten The picture in the book page 109 dose not look like a helve hammer set-up but more like a vertically guided-ram with coil springs. It would be interesting to see the full patten. Francis: How do I go about down loading the two pattens? Is that price for each patten or $3.00 for both? Thankyou for your information. Armand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrismetalsmith Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Francis: How do I go about down loading the two pattens? Is that price for each patten or $3.00 for both? Thankyou for your information. Armand There is no need to pay for the patents! Go to My link In the search bar type the 2 patent numbers Francis gave, It will bring up a link that says "Title not available", click on that, then on the next page click on the PDF. Totaly free and legal. By the way I see nothing other than the spring style, that is the same as a Champion. Your hammer looks like it may have undergone a crule conversion. Watch out especialy for that pitman arm, it looks like a suspect repair has been done to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand Tatro Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 There is no need to pay for the patents! Go to My link In the search bar type the 2 patent numbers Francis gave, It will bring up a link that says "Title not available", click on that, then on the next page click on the PDF. Totaly free and legal. By the way I see nothing other than the spring style, that is the same as a Champion. Your hammer looks like it may have undergone a crule conversion. Watch out especialy for that pitman arm, it looks like a suspect repair has been done to it. Harris: Thank youfor your information and link. I saw the kink in the pitman arm and will fix that. I will try your link in the morning. Armand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Harrismetalsmith thanks for the link that will be helpful for future projects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humphreymachine Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 A friend is thinking of letting go what appears to be a 25# Champion though it is unmarked. Several things concern me including that the upper ‘flywheel?’ to which the ‘pitman?’ is attached appears to be a newer gray iron casting(cast to the original and appropriate pattern). Does anyone know if they were originally simple gray iron or should they be something stronger like malleable iron or cast steel? The pitman, if that is the correct term, is hand forged and though well done, does not appear as sturdy as those pictured in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrismetalsmith Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 A friend is thinking of letting go what appears to be a 25# Champion though it is unmarked. Several things concern me including that the upper ‘flywheel?’ to which the ‘pitman?’ is attached appears to be a newer gray iron casting(cast to the original and appropriate pattern). Does anyone know if they were originally simple gray iron or should they be something stronger like malleable iron or cast steel? The pitman, if that is the correct term, is hand forged and though well done, does not appear as sturdy as those pictured in this thread. All of the original pitman arms I have seen were, cast bronze. The one on my #1 was all cracked up, with a bad repair as well. So I fabricated a new one out of mild steel with a bronze bushing. I posted an earlier post on this thread about this. Your friends hammer is probably the smaller one a #0, is actually a 35 lb. hammer. My #0 is my favorite trip hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Most all of the mechanical powerhammers I have seen had simple gray iron flywheels, though I recollect seeing a couple of replacement ones fabbed from mild steel thinking on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humphreymachine Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Thanks for the info—I’ll reread the thread. The one I may be able to purchase must be a 35 pounder then. It doesn’t seem that large so I assume it’s their smallest. Any theories about why they chose cast bronze over forged steel/iron for the pitman arms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Two suggestions: Usually when you have a bearing surface you want dissimilar metals so you don't get galling *AND* making the easiest to replace piece out of the softer metal is a good idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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