Barnaby Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) Making (slow but steady) progress on getting set-up for blacksmithing. Need to figure-out how to shim the anvil base. Heard lead wheel weights under the corners suggested. Thoughts? Edited March 2, 2009 by Barnaby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Just a suggestion.. Enclose the bottom. Take off the top and fill it with sand. Then make a floater board for a top that sits on the sand. then you can adjust the height of your anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodeye Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Nice Job - Add some tool holders and maybe a hammer holder or two and some kind of third hand set-up and you'll me a smithin' fool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I agree with sand, What if he closed the bottom of the stand and filled it via a small maybe onne inch hole? after the sand could be tightly tampered followed by a wood or metal plug.. Or maybe invert the base, fill it, then insert bottom? By shimming u want to raise a corner? Or make the anvil lower? or higher? Anyway you can fix all that by making sure your anvil top is flat and level first of all, then figure how much material u need to add or remove when the stand is temperarelly supported via shims or a tacked board on appropriate sides. All this is done on a flat, level surface and hopefully your shop floor is level or you could always cut the stand to fit your floor. Now take a scribe or a piece of wood the same thickess you want to lower the stand, Even if its just 1/8, then you take a pencil and lay it on the wood or with your scribe you scribe a line all around the base. Now you got a line that will mate perfectly with your floor level or not. A regular hand plane or belt sanders can do the trick, Even a sharp handsaw, As long as you dont cross the line to many times:p If you want to add material to the base of the stand, Remove those little side base boards and add new larger ones that protrude bellow the anvil stand and scribe as the above if necessary. Add liberal glue and and screw in a lot of screws all around. Or easier sandwich another piece between the anvil and the stand .My 3 cents ,hope it makes sence.. On my base which is almost identical to this one, I made to top of the base level but my anvil turned out to be not level lol so i might grind the base of the anvil:( or make the stand to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 It rocks, yes? Shimming a corner with thin sheet stock works just fine though it may shift in use. Or for more trouble but better looking results you can smoke the bottom of the anvil or dust it with snapline chalk, etc. and mark where the high spots are hitting the wood. Then just remove a little wood and I mean a LITTLE where the marks are, going just a bit outside the marks. You'll be surprised how little you need to remove to get it sitting solidly. Or you can mix up a little Bondo, say golf ball size, (this will vary depending on the anvil and how much if any hollow is in the base) place in in the center of where your anvil will rest. OR roll the Bondo into a rope and lay it around the hollow if it has a big hollow. Then lay a piece of wax or butcher paper over it (you don't want to actually GLUE your anvil to the stand!) and seat the anvil. Lay a board on the face and use a sledge hammer to make sure it's all the way down. Trim any excess Bondo just after it sets but before it's cured with a razor. I like the one myself and my friends have been kidding me for years at what I use Bondo for. S'okay, it works really well so long as you keep it AWAY from my car! Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Yes, the anvil rocks. The base of the anvil is very irregular (cast base). One of the four corners has about a 1/8" gap (largish) with the anvil is tilted so the other 3 are resting on a smooth surface. I like the bondo idea, that'd get it a custom-fitted impression to sit in. If I thought I could successfully weld on the bottom of the anvil (but it's cast iron I believe) I'd build-up and grind-down flat that one anvil corner till it sat better. Can't see it on the photo very well, but there is a thick washer under the corner right now. (By-the-way, I inserted the photo as an embedded flickr image, with notes, which worked last night, but now seems to be a local hosted image? Original higher resolution is here: Anvil in New Stand on Flickr - Photo Sharing!) I'm not so worried about overall height yet--can adjust that down by sanding the bottom of the stand's legs. (Or up by adding spacers under the anvil on the top.) None of the surfaces I have to work on are very flat, so that's going to be a potential problem anyhow, might need to adjust the legs for that. (Which would have argued for making a tripod stand, but was hoping to make this work as it matched the materials I had at hand, etc.) I don't want to fill it with sand as I do need to move it around. My "shop" will be my backyard for a while. I have a small urban house, with an in-basement garage. I work either in my driveway out front (10' from garage door to sidewalk) or in the backyard (no immediate neighbors, backyard drops-off so my back neighbor is about 100' below me and 200' or more behind me). The backyard is less likely to annoy folks. So I plan to lug-out the forge, anvil and eventually the post vice whenever I'm working, then after all cools down, stow it back in the basement/garage. Anyhow, no forging (or other hotwork) in the basement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Oh i got the question wrong lol i feel dumb. I was thinking anvil stand (base) not the actual anvil base. Ditto to what Frosty said. I will try that on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 read somewhere the other day to use roofing shingles (couple or so) the anvil will sink into them and they will also deaden the sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I skid the end of a chainsaw sideways across the top (and bottoms) of my stumps to eliminate rocking. Or... if you have a milling machine (or a friend that has one), you could mount the anvil upside down and even out the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merl Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, isn't that anvil probably solid wrought iron? At least the base I would think. You need to have mass, mass, mass for that anvil to work right. The stand is part of that. I relize it needs to be portable but, it should be heavy too. I have a portable stand for my demo anvil (100lb) and I find it lets the anvil jump around too much. When I was helping clean up my wifes grandparents estate some years ago I found two 50lb Zinc ingets in the garage that grandpa used for weight in the car for winter. Now I use them for extra weight on my portable stand and I made an inconspicuous bracket on the stand so I can attatch a set of wheels and an axil to it to help move it to and from the truck. I had the same problem with my 134lb Hay-Bud. It's a sweet anvil but I just wanted something heavier. A freind gave me an 8x8x10" block of A-36 and I made a hold down bracket to fasten the two together and now the whole thing weighs 317lbs! No Problems! Maybe (don't bite my head off!) you could consider makeing the base so heavy that it couldn't be moved (or stoleden) and then make an all weather cover/ enclosure for it and then enclose your entire smithing set-up in a Gazzabo and leave it in the back yard all the time. Would the neighbores be any the wiser? Other wise the sand is a good idea I have a freind that has a set-up like that and likes it alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Merl, You might be right about the anvil base being wrought iron--I'm still fuzzy on some of that stuff. Regardless, I'd be nervous about successfully welding on it. I'll have to see how the stand and anvil work together. There are many folks using stands like these who say they work just fine (or so is implied by the web). In my understanding, just adding mass to the stand doesn't do much for anvil rebound/efficiency. It can keep the anvil from walking around, which is good, but it's not the same as getting a heavier anvil. I might do something to allow me to hang/add weights on the bottom of the stand to keep it in place. I'm not keen on leaving the anvil sitting outside, cover or not. I don't really have room for any sorta shed or anything in the backyard. The backyard is *tiny*. My lot is 36' wide, and only about 50' deep before it hits the slope in the back. And the house sits in the middle of all that. And no hand biting here, appreciate the feedback and suggestions! -B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Upon further investigation, and realizing that the base of the anvil should be wrought iron (nominally?), arc-welding some beads along the bottom of the anvil doesn't seem that far-fetched. To bring it closer to flat-sitting. Would that be a horrible thing to do to an old anvil like this? (Note, I'm not getting anywhere near the face with a welder.) -B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 The problems with putting a couple beads on the base are. Evenness. A 1/8" shim evens it up now so laying a bead means you'll have to grind it/them to the right height. Points of contact. The foot of the anvil is wide to distribute stress, if you weld a couple beads you're making it contact the stand on a small footprint making stress points. I don't know if it'd be a factor in a wrought base but it could be significant if cast. The generally preferred remedy in this situation is to modify the stand to fit the anvil. If you must modify the anvil do so as minimally as possible. In your case I'd smoke the bottom, stand it up and then grind off the high points just until it sits solidly. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 OK, back to the bondo on the stand's face idea then. The problem with grinding the high points is that 3/4 of the base is high relative to the low corner. I'd be grinding 1/8" off most of the base. At least along the edges--the base of the anvil is very concave and rough, such that it only has a few points-of-contact now. -B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Welding might be appropriate in that case. I'd still be hesitant. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerkid Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Why dont you just make some sort of wedge? It sounds to me probally the SIMPLEST fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hammerkid, That's the current fix, shimming with some washers. It's just gonna be a pain cause they probably won't want to stay put. And I worried a bit about the fact that it only has contacts in a few places. Was hoping to "bed" it down into something. Hence, the bondo idea sounded good. Or something like that. Heard/read suggestions of tarpaper, shingles, lead weights at the corners, lead sheet, etc. Figure the sheet products are probably for minor irregularities, not the 1/8" gap on one whole corner. -B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Are you a blacksmith or not? Make your shims from mild steel, punch holes and nail them in place. Then clamp your anvil down somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Well, I'm an *aspiring* blacksmith. I'm working on it. Don't yet have the forge burning at home. Might well be the right solution to forge shims. I'll add it to the list of solutions to consider/try. -B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Heck, we're all aspiring blacksmiths in one way or another. Forging and nailing the shims down is a good idea. You're not that far from Blackdog Forge and the other guys under the bridge you know. You might consider paying them a visit. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merl Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) To follow on what Frosty said about evening up the bottom of the anvil to increase the contact area, Here is what I ended up doing to fit my anvil and base block together. Bear in mind that I wouldn't do this for every anvil as it was alot of work. The 8x8x10 block I have was cut from a 10" thick plate of A-36 ( it was undersize and so was scraped) The top and bottom on the 10" side were nice and flat from the steel mill so I only had to clean them up a little with a 4" grinder. The bottom of the anvil was a bit rougher and was suprizingly hard to grind but , I used a precision straight edge to help take off the high spots with the 4" grinder again. When I thought I had it pretty flat I would rub it on the base block and look for rub marks on the bottom of the anvil and then keep touching them up untill there were more and more rub marks. This indicated that more and more of the two surfaces were touching. For some reason I became obsesed with getting a full contact and decided the two surfaces needed to be hand scraped. So I got out the machine bed scrapers and took them bothe to 10 points per inch! Thats not much for a typical machine bed but is probably the most any anvil has ever seen. I then made a frame from 1x1 bar stock that went around the waist over the feet and is through bolted 4" deep into the base block with 5/8-11 grade 5 bolts. Think that did the job? Heck no! No matter ware I struck the anvil it would "buzz" and give me a shock right back through the hammer handle. I finely figured out the anvil was still bouncing off the block no matter how hard it was tightend down. The force of the hammer blow was going through the anvil to the block and being kicked back at me because of the different weights and dencities of the two masses. So I figured that the 1x1 frame was flexing and allowing this to happen. I then made some very heavy wall spacers to go under the 1x1 frame and only allow me to pull the frame down about 1/16" after it touched on the anvil and not allow it to keep bending. Although this helped it didn't solve the problem completely. I then decided that no matter how tight I fastend the anvil and block together they would never act as one piece and continue to kick back at me. Someone did suggest putting a sheet of lead between the two but, not haveing any and not wanting to have a potential lead dust hazerd in the shop I stripped off enough 10 gage solid copper wire to cover the surface of the base block and then tightend the anvil down on that( chained the whole works to the bench to get it as tight as I could). Problem solved. If you use an "inertia block " as one learned smith calls it, you need to put something between them that will compress slightly and then hold that shape indefinatly. One thing I notice on your stand is, while you trap the anvil from moving side to side very nicely, you don't have it strapped down to the stand. My own little bit of expeirience has shown me the anvil needs to be firmly attached to the base. Some may disagree but, IMHO, it is best that way. I like Frosty's suggestion of the Bondo on the base of the anvil. That could be faired into a nice, smooth and level surface if that 's what you need. A bit long winded but, I hope it will help you. BTW I wouldn't try welding on a wrought iron any thing. I think the slag inclusions in the iron will just give you hell and you may cause brittleness in your nice old anvil. Again that's MHO... Edited March 4, 2009 by merl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Wow Merl, that was a bit obsessive. Did you consider lapping? Not criticizing, I have my quirks and enjoy them thoroughly. Heck, there are epoxies that'd join the two solidly enough you couldn't beat them apart if you tried. Kenworth and other truck companies glue quite a bit of parts on their trucks now days, stronger lighter and faster than welding or riveting. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Guys, I am about to pick up a nice stump to place my anvil on and looking forward to it, after reading these post I've come to the conclusion its not just a hobby I have got myself into, its a science and a very big one. loving it all keep the knowledge coming cause I and no doubt numerous others are sucking it up. I must say though I'll start of with the basics and strive for greater levels when I have those basics mastered. thanks heaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hofi uses the same Sika adhesive used to glue the hammer handles into the Hofi hammers, between the anvil and anvil stand. IForgeIron has this Sika adhesive in stock. It not only fills any voids, but connects the anvil to the anvil stand. Contact me for price and shipping details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merl Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Frosty, No I had not thought of that!!... But now that you metion it I do have accsess to an optical lapping maching that would be large enough to do the job...(hee hee) You have to relize what was going on at the time. It started out as a simple project but, I had a dead line to get done by and it seemed for a while everything I tried made no difference and that is what made me go a bit over board. You know what you say when you're obsessive. "If ,at first, you don't succeed. Obsess, obsess untill you do!" Glenn, as for epoxy, we have some stuff at work we use to glue aluminum armor plate together with but, I wanted to be able to get them appart if I needed to so, that was not an option for me. That might be a good idea for future projects though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.