jimbob Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 I have about 75 pair of tongs I've bought (average 3-4 dollars) at flea markets when you gould get them cheap...six or seven I made do do a specal job they work. I've lately bought several Tom Tongs they will hold the stock...trouble is you can't hit the iron right. I had to make a pair of 1/2" box jaw to make the wizard head bottle opener. I'm glad I took the time to learn how to make the box jaw type tongs...its like Mark says why buy when you can make them and get what you want! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 I have only bought one pair of tongs. All the rest are homemade. I have only seen tongs at a garage sale for less than $15 once, and that was before I started blacksmithing. These tongs were something like $5, and they looked handmade, so even though I did not know what they were for, I purchased them. After I started making my own tongs, I realized that they were substandard. They had a poorly functioning grip, and they were sloppy. I never modified them, since they were technically "my first set of tongs." They were also the first set to lose a jaw. Mr. Miller to the rescue!!!! Bzzzzt!! All fine now. If I could buy decent tongs at average 3-4 dollars, I would not make them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Making and using tongs is somewhat like forge welding. If you are capable in the required skills and thought process, it lends itself to other things. People who are good at forge welding are not afraid to incorporate it into their work - the same goes for tongs. Poorly fitting tongs invite streams of blue invective and are dangerous to boot but light and well fitting ones are a joy to use. I can make a pair of standard tongs from start to finish (with a fire already going) in 30-45 minutes but more important than speed is that they are exactly what I want when I'm done. In addition, factory tongs are rarely usable for the job at hand so you have to adjust the jaws anyway. The other problem with most factory tongs (Grant Sarver's are the exception) is that they are too heavy. Most smiths don't realize until they've worked a few years that fatigue in the off hand is as debilitating as fatigue in the hammer arm. For example, I decided several years ago to stop holding the reins with my hand grip and that all my tongs would either have an attached ring on the reins or I use a separate ring to hold the jaws together. This very small change has allowed me to work longer and with less fatigue than having to fight the pieces I forge throughout the day. I can't talk anyone out of buying $4 tongs but I'd wager that in the presence of lighter and better fitting tools, the factory ones will rust on the rack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Falzone Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Aeneas, where did you run into master Danr (Irontree) . He is one of the guys that got me started in smithing. Great guy. Finnr Irontree had a tent-shop set up at Pennsic. Great guy - talked to me about some book resources he had, and then when i emailed him after Pennsic because I forgot the titles of the books, he sent me 2 pages of other resources. I loved his forge set-up too. Aeneas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 it takes time, materials, and effort to make any tool. if someone else can make it better and at a cost to you less than what it would be if you tried it...then you should buy it. Don't spend $100 of your effort for a $25 tool to be had elsewhere. There is no shame in buying something like that, just good sense. Some blacksmiths have specialized in making tools, whether it be tongs or hammers, because they can make and sell a better product at less cost than if the buyer tried to do it infrequently themselves. I gotta say you a are totally right. Although I think there's much to be said about making your own tools, i've seen some people who clearly spend their entire day making tongs and selling them on ebay for dirt cheap. Your not going to get as perfect as they are mang them unless you probably make a jig and re-arrange your shop exactly as they have most likely done. Therefore it's probably wise to make some tongs so you can make them and feel confident in tool making but probably when it comes to working with some higher end stuff just rely on someone who's completely spec'd out their shop for making them. Making 6 tongs for example, that are xxxx near perfect will probably cost you way more in your own hours then it would just to buy them from someone who has the process down pat on an expert level. well that's just my 2 cents on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbearforge Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 A great find I came across this summer is a blacksmith selling tong blanks. They were plasma cut steel blanks that had the rudementary reins and head shape and were pre-drilled for the rivet. All you had to do was draw out the reins to the desired shape, shape out the jaws to the desired shape, twist them 90 degrees and rivet together. The blanks take out half the work and have enough material that they can be custom shaped to whatever tong you need. I'm hoping to practice shaping reins and jaws with these and then move to making tongs totally from scratch. Danr gets the tong blanks from me. They're acutally laser cut. Here's a picture (for everybody else) of that the head looks like. I'm not overly fond of forging tongs. I'd rather spend the time forging knives. I've cut them from 5/16, 3/8, and even a couple out of 1/2 inch. My next rev will include a pre formed style for bolt tongs. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Falzone Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 So YOU"RE the guy I have to thank. I love this idea and if you can keep cutting them out and don't get tired of doing it, I will definitely buy more every year I'm at Pennsic (which is almost every year). And I will definitely buy the bolt tong blanks too. I'm already planning my Pennsic shoping list for next year and at the top is "10 sets of tong blanks" (I figured I should leave some for everyone else). This last Pennsic I bought 5 sets from Danr. Thank you so much!!! Aeneas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Danr gets the tong blanks from me. They're acutally laser cut. Here's a picture (for everybody else) of that the head looks like. I'm not overly fond of forging tongs. I'd rather spend the time forging knives. I've cut them from 5/16, 3/8, and even a couple out of 1/2 inch. My next rev will include a pre formed style for bolt tongs. Jamie Where do you sell these blanks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aspery Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Making and using tongs is somewhat like forge welding. If you are capable in the required skills and thought process, it lends itself to other things. People who are good at forge welding are not afraid to incorporate it into their work - the same goes for tongs. Poorly fitting tongs invite streams of blue invective and are dangerous to boot but light and well fitting ones are a joy to use. Nicely stated! I have heard the shouts of the 'blue streak' at various hammer-ins and conferences across the land. In fact, nothing but the ill fitting or poorly designed tongs extracted such vituperation from the smith. If I make it to Texas, I'll call ahead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbearforge Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Where do you sell these blanks? Only by word of mouth so far, but after thing settle down here, I'll be revamping the website and list them there. If somebody would like to order them, just email me. The prices are $7 per pair for 5/16 thick and $8 per pair for 3/8. I'll also be making another version that makes bolt tongs a lot easier to make. I'll post that when I have tried a few out. They are 20 inches long, and won't fit in a flat rate box, so I'll have to figure out shipping costs. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Nicely stated! If I make it to Texas, I'll call ahead! Mark, you are welcome anytime...Hollis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Jamie, Those are excellent tong blanks. Tim had a few sets with him at Poorman's . Nice design! Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Me being new to this , and this being a hobby , I try to make my own, I have made three or four pairs. and they work, But are to big, When I get home and start the vacation I'm going to make some smaller ones. I got some blueprints that Iron Surgeon post, and I'm going to try his idea's ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I have been of the view for a while that I just didn't have the time to make tongs, I would rather spend my time/energy working on either my art or commission work. So I have bought tongs along the way and often been disappointed with the performance of them, which usually means discovering that they are far too heavy to be useable for me. I have made a couple pairs of simple tongs in the past, but since then never really challenged myself. After reading this thread last week, and all of the arguments for and against, I decided to "put my money where my mouth was" so to speak. I decided to make a set of tongs to hold the flat discs that I make flowers from (I make an awful lot of flowers) with long reins to avoid the dragons breath. You know what, It only took me about 30 mins, and I was fairly satisfied with the result. Next time I would alter them a wee bit, but it just goes to show that sometimes we get stuck in a way of thinking... but this is why I love this site. -Colleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDJ Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) I have started making my own tongs, more for hammer and forging practice than anything else, but I find I like it. At least I find that now that I have found the correct stock to make them from, I use 1/4'' X 3/4'' X 18'' flat bar and start at the tip of the reign and fuller to 1/4'' square till about 3-4'' from the other end (This will be changed in my next set as I am going to taper the fuller from 1/4'' at the end to the full 3/4'' at the 3-4'' mark keeping the reign to one side of the flat bar (only fuller one side smashing it to square on the top side of the tong should look like this X,X****** . I make sure both pieces are the same and make a mark at 2-3'' from the end then set them over the side of the anvil and start the notch on the OPPOSITE side of the flat bar as the reign. Once I have the notch started I fuller it down to about 3/4 of the width of the bar and make sure to match the other tong side to this one. Once each tong is done like this I place them together the way they need to go and punch them and rivet them, then put the mouth in a vice and twist them. After this you can change them however you want for what ever stock you are using. The tricks to remember: Keep both sides as exactly the same as possible. Only work at a good heat! Make sure your reign is on one side of the flat bar at the joint and the mouth is on the other side of the flat bar at the joint ( X,X****** )! (I always end up having to move the reign to the other side because I forget this!) Edited September 24, 2008 by NateDJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 If you forge them from titanium you will find them much stronger and lighter. Have fun its hard work by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 You should spend your time the way you prefer. If you want to make knives and buy tongs or make tongs and buy knives its up to you. The guys running a business have to make stuff to sell and tongs are not profitable for most shops so they buy them. But even for them, its not all about money. Why go into the smithing business when you could make more as a dentist or a car salesman? Its about doing what you want with your time. I really liked what Woolridge wrote. Tongs are an excellent smithing exercise. They use all the basic techniques. For most people this will pay off in other projects too. Even if you dont make tongs, you should be able to. Personally, I love making tongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer3j Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I have a bunch of Starrett annealed O1 for knives. I have it in 1/8th,3/16th and 1/4 and in several widths. Hard to get better start up material than that. I am a rookie, but Glen S. has worked with me to do tongs for that material. I have maybe 25-30 pounds of O1. I want to concentrate on shaping it- without top quality tongs, it would be floppin' around like a gill-hooked muskie in a round bottom canoe. I will learn tongs, starting with the nice laser cut blanks and then from sctatch. Mike T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Starting slow is no sin! Do what feels right at you at the time it feels right! Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironlord Oz Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I make the majority of my tongs for the simple fact that I don't have time to stop on a job & wait for an ordered pair to arrive. When I have a spare hour or so i'll forge up a heap of blanks so when I need a pair it's just a matter of shaping the jaws & riveting them together which only takes around 10mins. I've got an old spring hammer that makes the job a lot quicker & easier. I also enjoy making tongs which certainly helps:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Stegmeier Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I do buy tongs, and when Tom Clark was having a sale on old stock when the new coated tongs came in I did stock up a bit, but I much prefer to use my own tongs, or Steve Parker's;-) Steve is an industrial smith who makes tongs on a Nazel B3 or B4 all day long. I took a class with him to learn the tricks, and my freinds looked at me like I was an idiot "You need to take a class on tong making???" they said incredulously. But it was an excellent class and Steve was able to improve my tong making 100% (It was a little embarassing that I was the most experienced student in the class with twenty years of blacksmithing at that time;-). The pictures at the bottom of the page are of the tongs I made in that class. Most of the time Steve roughs in his tong blanks in different sizes of coil spring, so they are 5160 mainly and you don't want to quench them in water, but you get a wonderfully light pair of tongs with nice springy reins. Most of the old tongs you find are WAY too heavy and were designed by an engineer from the Machinery Handbook. Have you looked at the recommended sizes for tongs in older editions? Urgh... I hate heavy tongs. The tongs should be heavy enough to support the stock, and not heat up so much that they become weak... Otherwise smaller and lighter is better. Most tongs don't feel that good to me, much like most hammers don't feel too good in my hands either. I definitely agree on the tong clips, or locking tongs! They are a Godsend, anything you can do to help avoid fatigue should be done. Heavy tongs, ill fitting tongs, and maintaining a death grip on your tongs should all be avoided and remedial training instituited;-) Forging a nice pair of tongs is a luxury I don't often have time to indulge in, which means I end up limiting myself, oh well. I really like finely made tools, although some of my tongs don't honestly meet my own standards, but I did learn some important lessons making them, and they do work so I haven't buried them (yet;-) My goal in the future is to have a full tong rack of tongs that I have made, that show off my skill and craftsmanship. Bob Patrick I believe recommended that if you are serious about really learning to forge and tool up, you need to made a pair of tongs everday you are in the shop. At that pace you will be good at it pretty fast, and in a year or two you'll have most of the tongs you need, and you'll be very good at making tongs;-)Tongs - Blacksmith Photo GalleryBit end of the tongs - Blacksmith Photo Gallery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbalist Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Danr gets the tong blanks from me. They're acutally laser cut. Here's a picture (for everybody else) of that the head looks like. I'm not overly fond of forging tongs. I'd rather spend the time forging knives. I've cut them from 5/16, 3/8, and even a couple out of 1/2 inch. My next rev will include a pre formed style for bolt tongs. Jamie I wish there was someone like you over here in the UK :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDJ Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I wish there was someone like you over here in the UK LOL nothing like stepping up to the plate. I am sure you could find a fab shop who would cut the blanks for you, quantity lowers the cost so just sell the excess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I wish there was someone like you over here in the UK It could be you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell_smith93 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Danr gets the tong blanks from me. They're acutally laser cut. Here's a picture (for everybody else) of that the head looks like. I'm not overly fond of forging tongs. I'd rather spend the time forging knives. I've cut them from 5/16, 3/8, and even a couple out of 1/2 inch. My next rev will include a pre formed style for bolt tongs. Jamie I stumbled across this thread looking for something, but there is a lot of good info here. Jamie, you might want to update this thread with your newer designs;) regards Sha-ul/ Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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