Antique forge help

[bodozer]

Hello and thank you for your time.  My boy wants to get into forging, so we hit an estate sale and picked up what I think is an old rivet forge.  We are doing well at getting it all cleaned up, but I am having one problem.  The blower fan seems to run on tapered bushings.  These are worn to the point where the fan is quite sloppy and they need replaced.  Has anybody done this?  What did you use for new bushings?  I have attached photos.  Thank you.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome from the Ozark mountains. The last bushing I had to make I used my mini lathe and some bronze rod I had in the resource pile.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails. ~ Semper Paratus

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Bo, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you'll have a chance of meeting up with members in your general area. Maybe someone with another blower that'll work or has experience rebuilding them. 

Can you get the existing bushing's remains out so you can measure it? These old machines were made to be easily repaired so off the shelf bronze bushings might work without modification or having to machine one yourself.

Frosty The lucky.

[George N. M.]

Welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming.  Glad to have you.

I can't help you regarding the bushings but I will say that these forges are more properly, IMO, described as "farm forges" rather than "rivet forges."  Yes, similar forges were used to heat rivets in shipyards, construction sites, and other industrial uses but thousands were sold by Sears Roebuck, Montgomery Ward, and others to farmers so that they could do their own repairs on the farm rather than having to take a day or so to go into town to have the local blacksmith make a repair.  If you look at the catalogs of Sears and Wards from the late 19th and early 20th centuries you will see these type of forges sold by themselves or as a set with an anvil, tongs, etc..

Most of these forges had a hand crank blower but some had, like yours, a lever operation.  My own theory is that they were marketed to smiths who were used to pumping a bellows with their left arm and this was a familiar motion.  I know that when I use my propane forge it feels a bit funny not to be cranking the blower with my left hand.

Don't forget that before firing the forge up it is a good idea to apply a layer of clay and sand (about 1 part clay to 2 parts sand) to the inside of the pan of the forge to help insulate it and keep the cast iron pan from cracking in the heat.  The clay/sand mixture just has to be brely wet enough to stick together and pounding it in with a mallet or the end of a 2x4 will pack it in sufficiently.  Then, let it dry before firing the forge.  Unexpected steam explosions are not your friend.

Also, I suggest that you and your son join the local Artist Blacksmith Association of North America affiliate.  Learning from a more experienced smith is orders of magnitude better than trying it by yourself.  I know.  When I started in 1978 all I had were some books from the library and lots of my own mistakes to guide me.

Speaking of books (and videos) I suggest for printed references:

The Backyard Blacksmith by Lorilei Sims

The Complete modern Blacksmith by Alexander Weygers

The Blacksmith's Craft by Charles McRaven

All are available on Amazon in paperback.

For videos, be aware that there are some BAD videos on You Tube to the point of being dangerous.  I like Blackbear Forge, JPL Services (our own Jennifer), Torbjorn Ahman from Sweden, and Christ Centered Ironworks.  Some folk like Alec Steele but I, personally, find his style of presentation kind of annoying.

Finally, don't forget PPE including aprons, gloves (some love gloves, some don't), eye and ear protection when appropriate, and NO synthetic fibers in anything around hot stuff, including shoes because most synthetic fibers melt when exposed to heat and give a much worse burn.  Always wear leather shoes or boots.  And if you wear pull on boots, NEVER tuck your pant legs into them.  Open boots are just waiting to catch a piece of hot metal and you will get a really bad burn on the front of your ankle or foot.  I had a friend who had to undergo serious reconstructive surgery because of mishap like that.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning Bo,

The simple answer is to connect a 120v blower motor, using a Gate Valve or a reostat to adjust the air quantity. To try to rebuild the original blower, would be cost effective to purchase your own 'Machine Tools' (Lathe and Drill/Mill). I have a couple of exactly what you have, No, I haven't rebuilt them yet. It is way easier to use a Propane Forge, you are up and running in a half hour. K.I.S.S.

Neil

[bodozer]

Thank you all for your help. I am in lincoln nebraska.  I was afraid that you all would say that I have to make these bushings.  It would be easy enough, but the shafts are tapered, so I assume that the bushing has to be as well, which will take lots of trial and error.  We do have a local blacksmithing organization, and going to one of their meets is a good idea.  Thank you for the advice on the blower motor, we might have to do that, but we are trying to keep it old school foe now.  I appreciate all the help

 

[Goods]

Just a thought, but you could try plumbers graphite packing. It probably won’t last long, but it may buy you some time to track down bushings. 
 

Anyone else have thoughts on that?

 

Keep it fun, 

David

[NoGoodWithUsernames]

Could you possibly use some shim stock or foil and shim the bushings OD? Since it is tapered that would effectively push it inward toward the fan and give a tighter fit, could at least get you up and running until you are able to make some new ones. 

[Frosty]

Whatever you do polish the shaft. If you really want to go old school wrap the shaft in gristle until you can find a bushing that fits. Old school for blacksmiths is multi-fold: KISS, "Keep It Simple Stupid," "Fast, Cheap, Good, pick two," "If it's stupid and it works it isn't stupid," "Make do if it'll do." No old school blacksmith was going to spend money on parts if they could do the repair themselves. If they couldn't and parts were available they bought them and I'll bet if they wore quickly they bought spares or a better machine. Bower in this case.

I agree with George, actual "Rivet" forges were light weight so they were easier to carry into the worksite, say sky scraper's 4th floor. Sure the guy heating rivets would throw them to the rivet buck who'd catch them in a cup (thingy). The buck(man) inserted the rivet and backed it with the buck (tool similar to a body dolly) and the setter would hammer the rivet. 

The fellow at the forge wasn't likely to be a blacksmith, that was a skilled profession nd got higher wages. He may be ABLE to throw rivets 40' up and maybe as far sideways to waiting bucks but missed throws were money so it wasn't common to throw them more than 2 floors, sometimes to a relay who threw them to the appropriate buck.

Rivet forges were as light as practical and didn't require the extra weight of claying. Sheet steel pans and narrow stands to fit on girder flanges. A cast iron forge is more durable, heavy and requires care. Farmers mostly repaired tools and equipment on the ground, probably under cover but unless it was a large farm probably not a dedicated "smithy." 

So referring to a cast iron forge as a "farm" forge is a LOT more accurate though "shop" forge is accurate enough. 

Anyway, if you want to get the blower up and working quickly as a true old school blacksmith would, measure and buy a bushing, check with a bearing shop, or pack it with what is available or in what I'd consider extremis, cast babbit. 

Ramble out. 

Frosty The lucky.

[BillyBones]

You may have to do a bit of searching but just last week i replaced several tapered bronze bushings in the machine i run at work so i know that they are available out there somewhere in this great big world. Maybe even going to a local machine shop, explain to them what you are looking for, and they may be able to get you in touch with the people who make their bushings. The shop i work in would make them for you, if you wanted 10,000 of them. 

Now i have to ask. What kind of truck is that teasing us with the rear fender poking into that pic? 

[JHCC]

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

Sure the guy heating rivets would throw them to the rivet buck

Not always a guy: here's an old video of women throwing rivets in a Canadian shipyard during WWII:

 

[Scott NC]

On 5/16/2023 at 12:55 PM, Frosty said:

wrap the shaft in gristle

  I'm curious about this.  How does one go about that?

[JHCC]

Cooked or uncooked?

[Scott NC]

  Ham, beef, chicken, moose.....?

[bodozer]

Thanks everybody, I am curious about the gristle too, like it would work great, am assuming like from steak.  The truck is a 53 gmc that I am fixing up to sell.  So for now, we are going to see if the old ones work.  If not, then we will make some out of stock, but I am not looking forward to that.

Billy bones, what were the tapered bushings called?  There are other things called tapered bushings and when I search for them, that is all I get.

Thank you

[Frosty]

Raw gristle from I don't know what or where. It's a trick Dad told me about for making field expedient connecting rod bearings in T Ford engines. That's about all he ever said about it.

A little more thinking and the bushing on a blower is pretty thick where a rod bearing is pretty thing, a gristle bushing may be too wibbly wobbly.

Frosty The lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I have made some bushings for Debi's antique spinning wheels out of raw hide, that lasted for quite a long while. The wheel and flyer does run at a high speed, faster than any hand blower I have used, just keep them well oiled.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails. ~ Semper Paratus

[BillyBones]

17 hours ago, bodozer said:

The truck is a 53 gmc

Very cool, i love GMC's. 

My dad and i are working on a '72 Monte Carlo right now. 

I am not sure what they are called, i do not order the parts, but i will ask or look up in the parts book what they are called when i get to work tonight. 

[PNW_Sparky]

Have you checked with McMaster Carr? They have all kinds of stuff. 

[bodozer]

Thank you all so much for your help.  We got it going, just using the old bearings for now, will make sure he is interested enough to justify the search.

[LarryFahnoe]

On 5/16/2023 at 12:27 AM, George N. M. said:

Finally, don't forget PPE including aprons, gloves (some love gloves, some don't), eye and ear protection when appropriate, and NO synthetic fibers in anything around hot stuff, including shoes because most synthetic fibers melt when exposed to heat and give a much worse burn.  Always wear leather shoes or boots. 

 

Great to see the forge in use, but the bare foot...not so much. George already offered some important advice on safety (above)

--Larry