Identification of this Avil mark?

[Texas99]

Have this anvil and not sure what it is? There is a mark but it is very rusted hard to make out?

[JHCC]

Hi, Texas99! Welcome to IFI!

As you say, it's kind of hard to read. Do you have photos of the whole anvil? That can often be revealing.

(Just so you know, my first guess is that this may be a solid cast-iron anvil-shaped-object and therefore not much good for anything other than as a doorstop, a boat anchor. I could be wrong, though. When you tap it lightly with a hammer, does it go BING or thud?)

(Also, if you haven't yet, please READ THIS FIRST.)

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome from the Ozark mountains.

I figure from your sign on name you may be in Texas. If so there are several anvil makers in Mexico that copy anvils made in the U.S. but are poor quality cast iron anvils without a hardened face. Not to discourage you and I may be way off on that. As JHCC said more pictures from all sides and the bottom of the base may shed more light on the maker. Also if you have a 41/2 in angle grinder with a wire wheel that will usually clean off the rust better and other markings like a serial number on the front foot under the horn or weight markings may show up. What does it weigh? If it has good ring and rebound it really doesn't matter who made it it's a good anvil.

[Texas99]

It makes a very high pitch ping and resonates when you hit it.

 

Not sure about weight have not weighed it yet, the length is 20 inches front to back.

[Texas99]

There are no mouse holes so assuming cast, feet look like fisher?

Definitely makes a very nice high pitch ping that resonates.

Thanks

 

Actually located in New York, Texas was my home town.

[JHCC]

The feet definitely look like Fisher, but that top really does look cast to my eye. One would expect the face and body to corrode differently if they were different metals. The hardy hole is also really big. Odd.

Could you take another photo of the inscription, with the light at a very low angle to the side? That might throw up some shadow lines that could make the inscription easier to read.

52 minutes ago, Texas99 said:

no mouse holes

I think you mean "handling holes", the holes that would receive the porter bars used to move the anvil around the factory. "Mouse Hole Forge" was an anvilmaker in Sheffield, England.

Where in NY?

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I think fisher & Norris did make anvils for large hardware stores with the stores name cast in. Maybe Josh (njanvilman) will see this and weigh in. I know they made the Eagle anvil with a paper label.

Texas99, I hope you have read about not doing any grinding, milling or welding on the hardened steel face which does more harm than good. All it needs is a good wire brushing and a coat of BLO (boiled linseed oil) and hot steel hammered on it.

BTW: Josh has a facebook page /FisherAnvils/

Edited November 28, 2022 by Irondragon ForgeClay Works
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[JHCC]

Good point, IDFCW. As I say, I could be wrong, and that base does look very Fisher-esque.

[Texas99]

I am a newbie but the anvil gives off a high pitched nice ping or ring no matter where you hit it? Side, legs...

Can this be a forged anvil? Below is another pic did some gentle steel wire but still can't make it out?

 

[George N. M.]

Tex, welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming.  Glad to have you.

Try dusting the logo with flour or talcum powder or corn starch and it may bring some detail out after you apply it and lightly brush of the high spots.  It may not work but it may be worth a try.  

Generally, forged anvils tend to ring more than cast ones, IIRC.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Texas99]

I am starting to think its cast steel it sings if i hit it anywhere.

 

[Daswulf]

If it rings like you say it is most likely cast steel. 

 

 

[JHCC]

Certainly a strong possibility. Quite a puzzler.

[Texas99]

Thanks everyone i will try to do some more light brushing and use flour or powder to see if i can bring out the text. Looking at it now it looks like just numbers? almost like a serial number.

[Frosty]

Shine the light from a low angle to the side and take a pic. Direct flash fills the texture making it hard to see, compare the center of the full moon to the edges for example.

Don't worry about taking a twisted wire cup brush on an angle grinder to the body to remove the rust or electrolysis to convert it back to iron/steel. Unless you like rust that is.

Frosty The Lucky.

[njanvilman]

The above anvil was NOT made by Fisher.  There is no way to know who made it until the "label" is cleaned off.

[Texas99]

I tried to clean off with wire brush but I am scared to wear down the letters / numbers.

What is the best way to remove the rust while keeping the name or numbers intact?

The attached photos is the best I could get. Its a wild guess but looks like a year 4 numbers, than a space and another series of numbers like serial numbers. Seem like a plate attached to the anvil?

The anvil is definitely cast steel.

 

[Daswulf]

Or it was a plate attached to the die to make the mold

I've seen wood pieces shaped to whatever shape they would want with metal plates with info on them used to make molds to be poured with cast iron or cast steel. 

I don't know what to tell you on trying to figure that out further, but I would say to go with the least destructive (maybe wipe it with flour to raise the definition) to something else less destructive to (only if you are desperate and it could possibly not work and is irriversable) flat sand or grind a little off the face of the letters/numbers to take away the corroded portion and see if it raises the definition of what is there. 

I personally would be less worried about who made it and more concerned with using it. (Unless you are trying to sell it and think a maker might help. But the main thing is with any anvil is, there are good ones, and not so good ones, and a maker stamp typically doesn't determine that but the rebound and condition do. 

Just saying.

If you are patient enough maybe someone will find this thread that has one similar that is more legible and can shed light on it. (Could be days, weeks or years). 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

The best way to remove the rust would be electrolysis, probably not worth the trouble though.

[Shainarue]

Is there a reason he shouldn't soak it in vinegar? That's always my go to for removing persistent rust after wire brushing. I've never soaked an anvil but I've soaked two post vices and a blower, and many tools. After a few days or weeks (whenever I get around to it), rinse with water and coat with something to keep from rusting until I'm ready to finish with blo. Usually that's just a wipe with non detergent oil because it's cheap and what I have easy access to in the workspace. 

[Bud in PA]

How about rubbing like they do with grave stones? Get some white paper and some artist charcoal, lay the paper over it and rub on the high spots.

[The Jeff]

How about a wire wheel on an angle grinder?

[Frosty]

Electrolysis, removes the oxygen molecule from rust and leaves the iron molecule in it's original as made position. I know it sounds like a tall tale but it's true, check out electrolysis and sunken silver treasure restoration. I've restored a couple hammers that were like swollen pages of paper.

Acids even mild ones like vinegar dissolve rust which removes the iron molecules along with the oxygen. Same for any abrasive action like a wire brush. A wire cup brush in an angle grinder is excellent for removing surface rust but this old anvil is deeply pitted so abrasion or acid removal would take a lot of the steel/iron with it.

Part of the electrolytic process that should really benefit this project is how the iron molecule return to their original locations. "Pitting" is actually rust expanding and the pressure of expansion expresses itself in "circles" which appear to be pits but actually the surrounding rust is higher than the centers. This means as electrolysis converts the rust back to iron / steel the rims of the pits lower to the original surface. Yeah, the pits go away UNLESS you brush off the loose rust in which case they leave little ring shaped depressions.

I HIGHLY recommend electrolysis. Hang the anvil in a suitable tank, a plastic tote that will support the anvil's weight hanging from a 2" x 4" or two bridging the sides. Attach the anode, negative lead to the anvil, I like in the hardy hole but hanging it from copper wire is probably fine.

The Cathodes positive side connect to sacrificial iron plates, grids, etc. expanded metal works nicely, the more surface area the faster the reaction. 

The electrolyte of preference is solution of fresh water and washing soda. You can use all sorts of impurities in the water, salt, sugar (not so good) or my favorite phosphoric acid at maybe 10% tops.

A DC transformer to power it and she'll clean up nicely. An old school trickle charger works a treat but the new ones that stop when the battery is charged or when there's a short or funny connection don't like this.

That'll bring her back to as fine a glory as possible for you.

Frosty The Lucky.