I bet y’all that a body can put a dent in a 400 pounder just as easy as they could a 50 pounder if they really wanted to, regardless of brand!

Lol just sayin 

Actually they could dent most 400 pounders more easily as the larger anvils tended to be softer; a "feature" for doing 16# sledge striking in teams and a side effect of heat treating that size of a hunk of metal.  Though I believe my 469# Fisher is harder faced than my  400+ pound Trenton.  I'll have to do a ball bearing test and compare!

On 2/11/2022 at 9:20 PM, anvil said:

This is an instructor/teacher problem, not a beginner problem. For this to happen, its obvious the teacher did not teach this beginner how to strike. 

Well it was more of a outdoor fair scenario dozens of years ago, with lots of people hammering on lotsa a things... I'm not sure a lot of "teaching" was happening.  The reason I remember well is I was talking to one of the "smiths" and I tell him that those guys over there with sledgehammers look like an accident waiting to happen. He turns his head, open his mouth to say something and before he does; "pling", the top face cracks open. A half-moon shaped  section of anvil face fell to the dirt floor. The dude goes "*curse-word* ... Sigh.... " and walks over there.

Memorabel moment, and so much wrong going on in one picture... 

100 to 150 lbs is ideal for most horse shoeing.

 

George

I agree. My shoeing anvil was a 125# Enders farrier anvil. 

I run into a lot of college age students who's eyes are bigger than their arms when it comes to hammering.  One reason I sourced the old oil patch bridge anvil for the Fine Arts Dept.  It's already beat up and they probably can hit it hard enough to do any more damage to it!

On 1/20/2022 at 10:05 AM, anvil said:

 

I love this photo.. Your holding the sledge correctly though the handle looks a little long.  Your a lefty? 

anvil, I've been meaning to ask, is that Frank Turley you are striking for in the picture.

I like the largest anvil I can find with the features I like in it...   A 1" hardie hole, a crown to the face are some of the most important features I like.  The other aspect which is important is a 4 to 4.5" face..  Wider does nothing for me and with hardware the wider a face it just gets in the way. 

I'd rather have taller vs wider.  The swedish pattern is about ideal.. 

Am in the process of designing my own anvil in the 450 to 500lb range with all the features I could want in one package.

 

Iron Dragon  anvil is strikeing for  Master smith  Francis Whitiker.

Thanks, I knew it was one of three masters, just couldn't put names with all.

For some tasks it's real handy to have a wide flat surface you can hammer on---but it doesn't need to be an anvil face.  Exp: truing up a trivet to sit flat and level.  I have a flat slab I use and can stack steel rounds on it for the trivet to sit on and bend the legs to meet the slab.  (If it fits in the screwpress, that is dandy for holding it stable while working on the legs.)

For straightening a long blade a piece of worn RR rail can be handy.

Thomas I have never found a wide flat spot to be important on an anvil.   Besides Neither of the anvils that I bought brand New are perfectly flat..  They warp in heat treatment.  

Flattening like anything is a skill set on it's own. 

Interesting; as I said I don't use an anvil for a wide flat spot; though my Blacker/Fisher works well for a lot of things.  A slab works better.  As for warping in heat treating; that is odd as almost all anvils I know of were ground flat after heat treating for that very reason.   Are some of the newer ones skipping that?   Older ones are usually swaled through wear or impact.

One of my favorite trivets is made from 3 identical pieces of 1/4" x 1/2" (length depends on how big a trivet you are making).  You take two of the pieces and hold them side by side and forge weld a couple of inches of the ends together for one leg, then fold out, bend and weld a couple of inches of an other end to the third piece, unfold and bend and weld the last two ends together and bend and then true up the flat part for the pot and adjust the feet.  Not as fussy for camp cooking where it will be resting on ashes and dirt.  More fussy for down hearth cooking with a hard surface.

It's much easier getting close when you are just forge welding (or riveting) legs to a ring.  Perhaps that is why that style seems to be more common nowadays.

Thomas, you have seen the video where the Peddinghaus 275lbs is on top of the Refflinghaus 460lb and the Peddinghaus is spinning, yes? 

Both are flat across the face.. Just not lengthwise. 

 

 

Thanks, Jen, I appreciate that. And, yup, I'm a lefty. I this was taken around '88-'90. It is the Rocky Mtn Smiths conference in Carbondale, Co. I got there late and Francis said, as I walked up, "I need a striker", so what could I say?  I grabbed a hammer and went to work. 

I like longer hammer handles and have since my farrier daze. I like the extra balance it gives. So that is a good length for me. Lol, since this is Francis's shop, its one of his hammers.  

I don't usually say "this is the way" too often, but I will say that striking like I am above or 2 or 3 variations on this same theme pretty well fit the exception to that. Its safe for humans, controlled, precise, easy adjustment from flat of anvil to striking on a hardy tool, and protects all tools. It takes about 5 minutes to explain and if he or she can't or won't strike like this, they wont strike for me. Anything else, without experience with each other is just too dangerous and the smith loses control of the strikers blow.

As for a flat surface, a farrier shoeing a horse spends about 90% of his time shaping on the horn and leveling on the face of the anvil. Turn shoe on horn, level on face, check fit, repeat 'til done. And if time is critical, turning scrolls however you do it must be leveled the same way. bend scroll ( I use bending forks and scrolling wrench mostly), heal edge bend and twist, check fit to drawing, repeat til done. So, in fact fitting a shoe and turning a scroll are done the same way. A farriers anvil usually has a narrower face than a smithing anvil,so I still do a lot of leveling and straightening on the face. But with bigger things, a bigger space is a big help. My table is 5'x10'x 1" thick. I went for this because my steel supplier told me that all plate under 1" comes rolled from the mill. Then it is unrolled and cut to length. Even when run thru rollers, it will not be flat. 1" and larger is shipped flat so, other than a milled surface 1" plate is about as flat and in plane as you can get. 

 

JLP, Impressive; but that looks like they are almost dead flat to spin that way.  Flatter than I can eyeball.

Striking; that looks like the European striking methods I've seen over there and by visiting smiths over here.  Of course the method can change with the project---remember the early 1900's movies showing full 360 swings with long handled sledges on very large forgings?    I don't work anything that large and don't have trained strikers I'd trust to be across from me with full circle swings of a sledge!

Actually, that style came to me straight from Turley forge. I've used that style in every shop I've been a striker, and they for me, around the U.S., Frankfort, Germany and Prague, CZ. I'd call it universal at least in the west. 

Why do they do strike that way in those flicks? 

22 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

trained strikers

So, in this day and age, if you want to be safe, preserve your tools, and not have your work of the moment not be trashed by giant strikers from your university, try the above. It even works with complete nubes.

Be safe

I can notice it in person.. On photos probably not.   the Peddinghaus at 275lbs is very short compared to the 40+" long Refflinghaus..  

The Refflinghaus is certainly 1/8" drop on each end and the Peddinghaus is probably close to the same. 

As for striking.. I strike the same way and also call it a European method,  Crossed over for most forge work.. 


As for round the world swinging.. 

Taking it completely out of context and then trying to apply it as a small non industrial modern day shop is completely missing the mark. 

Back when wrought iron in large sections were welded by hand "NO one" would or could stand in front of a 1000lbs forging with short handles and right on top of the work.  Light hammers with long handles were preferred..  Doesn't mean they didn't use larger hammer or even 2 people hammers.. 

You would swing around a few times and step out.. Someone else would fill your space and it would continue till done.. 

WE don't really have a great grasp of what was the reality back then even 100 years ago because we were not there.   We can speculate or make assumptions and even reading of a given activity can only be imagined. 

I personally don't know of any smith today who would expose themselves to that kind of work..  Well except myself..  It doesn't mean I'd be good at it.. But I'd certainly put in the time to at least fully experience it. 



 

Well put! I feel we owe so much to the inventors who worked on creating modern electrical motors, hydraulic jacks and ratchet wrenches!    Truly time saving tools for the small shop!

Cool video JLP. I find it interesting that your anvils are curved from end to end where my is dead flat. Perpendicular however, my anvil has a slight but noticeable dip. Almost like it shrunk in the middle while cooling.

Maybe a machining issue, It had machine marks on it when new and I would guess it was milled after heat treat ??