Identifying iron in an old piece I made

[ymber]

Years ago (10ish?) I forged a pendant and I'm trying to work out exactly what material it is. I'm sure it's some kind of iron and not steel. It's just a bent bar with the top flattened and that black oxide was on it straight out the forge. I messed up filing some bits so that's how the rust you can see on the picture got to it. I understand steel types and grades but not much about the different irons you get. Is there any way to tell what I forged this from back then? I want to get more of it now that I'm looking to set up my own forge.

[Frazer]

What makes you think it's iron and not steel? Do you remember where the material came from when you made it 10 years ago? (i.e. you took a class and they provided it, it was taken from a scrap pile somewhere, it was purchased at the hardware store, etc.).

The best way to get a rough idea of the composition is to do a spark test. Ideally, you would compare the sparks to known samples. Without expensive equipment you'll never be able to know exactly what it's made of. However, sometimes a rough idea is good enough. My guess would be that it's mild steel of some variety.

If you're looking to purchase some more steel, your local steel supply will have plenty of material for you. 

By the way, welcome aboard! Glad to have you.

[ymber]

It was at a traditional skills demonstration and I think I remember the guy saying the rod was iron. I might be misremembering now though. Non-cast iron does seem quite hard to come by. If I worked with some common mild steel like EN3B in a gas forge would I get that black oxide layer to protect it without deliberately blackening it afterwards?

[Frazer]

You can't forge cast iron, it will crumble and send a shower of sparks everywhere. While pointless to do, is pretty fun to watch! There is a possibility that it could be wrought iron, but my bet (sitting here on the other side of the pond) would still be mild steel. I sometimes hear blacksmith's to refer to steel as "iron" even if it's a bit of a misnomer. 

There may be a steel supplier closer to you than you think. Maybe some of our fellow members from England will be able to share where they source their material.

EN3B (1020) would work just fine. For most of my forgings I use A36 (I think that would be S275 for you). A36 is the name for structural steel here in the US and it's named for it's yield strength and not for its elemental composition. Therefore, it does vary from batch to batch. This variation has only been a problem for me once so far and it hasn't been enough of an issue to justify switching over to something more controlled like 1018 or 1020. 

Yes, any steel that comes out of the fire will have scale on the surface. However, scale on its own doesn't provide very much rust protection long term. I apply a furniture paste wax while the steel is at a black heat to darken the surface and protect it from corrosion. There are many threads here on all of the various finishes people use. I would use the site search function described in the "Read This First" tab at the top of every page to find some more info on that topic.

[BillyBones]

Frazer, funny you mention people saying iron. Back when i joined i was hesitant becuase it was "iforgeiron" and not "iforgesteel", i thought it was for people working iron and not steel. 

[Frazer]

Iforgeiron sounds much better! I suppose calling it iron is a habit that has been passed down from one smith to another. Iron would have been wrought iron and good for one rather large group of items while steel was necessary for another set of items. Now it's all steel (unless it's cast iron etc), but calling the material used for the first group of items "iron" has just stuck. If you asked the same blacksmith who called the bar he is hammering away on iron, what his knife was made of, he might answer differently. Different uses, different names sort of thing.

Of course it's also mixed in with people who just like the "old-timey", rustic, image the word has that "steel" does not. 

Much of the above is just conjecture. I'm no historian.

[ymber]

If I can get the same look in mild steel I'll be happy. Bright mild steel bar stock is really easy to come by in this country. I'll have to go learn more about finishes.

[Frazer]

I'm confident that you'll be able to do that; there are many ways of doing so. I figured it would be!

Happy hunting and good luck getting yourself set up. Should you need any help, give us a holler! There are lots of good and knowledgeable folks here.

[Simian]

I'm also from the UK (and also a Noob here; Hi all!). 

Coincidentally I made these keyrings the other day, both are mild steel, and both with the forge scale still on.  I really think it's unlikely yours would be iron - it's hard to get hold of around here. either way, It's a good looking piece.

Hope that might help?

Also, If you're forging it there is no point buying bright steel. you're just paying for them to remove and polish the steel, and as you're about to add your own scale anyway it's throwing money away.

 

 

Steve

[Frosty]

Steve: We're going to have to poke jokes at you if you make the same mistakes too many times. The pics are on a site that requires us joining another site or having special software. There aren't many of us likely to be able to see your pics.

If you save the pics to a file on your comp you can attach them to a post here through the link in the bottom of the text window.

Ymber: Wrought iron is a lot easier to come by in England and has similar corrosion resistant properties to what you describe.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ymber]

Where do you source wrought iron in Britain? I could only find one place selling it and they weren't set up to send out small orders.

[George N. M.]

My only suggestion is scrap yards.  Look for old agricultural equipment and iron fences.  Smaller scrap yards that have been there for many years are more probable to have old scrap out back or at the bottom of a pile. 

It is my understanding that during WW2 many iron fences (Victorian wrought iron) were cut down to help the war effort.  However, it turned out that wrought iron was not usable by the steel mills and the scrapped fences just piled up.  The program was kept in place as a civilian morale booster so that folk could feel they were sacrificing and contributing to the war effort. 

Another possibility is to order wrought iron from Europe.  I believe it is till produced in Sweden.

You might also contact other smiths or blacksmith associations to inquire where they obtain wrought iron.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[ThomasPowers]

The Real Wrought Iron Company LTD.   Being able to recognize it in the scrap stream can help turn it up too.

[arkie]

I don't know if they are still selling any of the old wrought iron from the Old Globe grain storage elevators, but it might be worth dropping them a line of inquiry.  I appears from their web site that they are currently only marketing the wood from the elevators.  Google "old globe wood".  There is an inquiry place on the web page.  I bought several pieces from them several years ago.  Their WI consisted of the thousands of feet of round rod and rectangular/square bar that held the giant grain elevators together.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I had the wrought iron page on their web site bookmarked and it was no longer valid, so I figured they either sold out or created a new site for the wrought iron.