Greebe Posted July 9, 2021 Author Share Posted July 9, 2021 On 7/7/2021 at 4:52 PM, Glenn said: You are NOT spending money, your investing your money in projects that can make you money for many years into the future. Thanks. That is a good perspective, especially when I have "invested" almost $9000 upgrading equipment in the past week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 1 hour ago, foundryguy said: Friends have sent a couple of photos of stands they have made for the block they bought separately. Could you start a new thread with those photos? That would be a great resource, and would also be beneficial for people considering purchasing one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greebe Posted July 9, 2021 Author Share Posted July 9, 2021 Or just post them here, I do not mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 A separate thread makes them easier for future researchers to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Greebe, if you want to see just how what your investment is worth, use the rent to own concept and set what would be a fair rental price per hour or day for each piece of equipment. Put the money into a kitty. Call the rental on the anvil $X.00 per day. If you use it for 5 days this week, put $X into the kitty 5 times. Same for the press which would be $Y.00 This will cause you to realign your thinking to adding that rental to the price of your work, which you should have done anyway. But now it is a REAL expense that goes with the project. Does not take long to wrap your head around things and see where money is slipping away unnoticed. Otherwise turn down the project, give the client $.00, and save yourself the work, sweat, and hours you would have put into the project. If you do not charge them the rent, you ARE giving then the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greebe Posted July 9, 2021 Author Share Posted July 9, 2021 Glenn, Thanks, that is a good idea. I will have to decide the time frame I want to pay myself back and then figure out the hourly cost to bill into work. That is not something I did when I had my machine shop. I just bought everything and put it to work. I know that they were paid off many times over, but I did not track when they were first paid off. That will help for sure in pricing my items. Seems like pricing can be tricky these days with all the cheap sellers on the market. Sometime I wonder how people are even making money on places like Etsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 It is not about paying yourself back, it is about paying for use. After use pays for the machine continue to pay rent so you can have funds available for the next tool. It is more about not loosing money than anything else. (grin) Beyond tools, do not forget other costs such as rent and utilities on a daily basis. That goes into the kitty each day whether you open the doors or not. They rent pick up trucks for $20.00 a day plus $0.50 per mile, plus gas. What did you charge your client? Did you add the cost of the drivers hours? All these are real numbers and real dollars. If you can afford to pass out $20.00 bills someone is always out there to take several. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 If you want to make a business of something you do NOT want to be in competition with people who are not charging for their time and may not be charging for their cost of equipment. OTOH you may be able to make tools & things to sell to such people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 If they continue profitless business practices you can buy their equipment cheap when they go broke. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 In the reenactment community you often have a lot of people doing stuff as a hobby and so they do not count their time, or amortization of their equipment into their "costs" maybe not even utilities! They won't go broke as they are not selling as a business. At most they will decide to stop selling; as it's not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 That's true Thomas but Greebe's last statement was regarding competing with cheap goods on the market. I rarely charge more than token $ when doing demos but I had a shop rate when I worked for money. Since the accident I no longer have the eye hand to be effective nor stability to work effectively safely in the shop. I have to work slowly and deliberately so I'm off the market. I'd go broke bidding jobs and It's be grossly unfair charging shop rate. Even my old out of date shop rate. What and how to charge a fair rate and make a profit isn't easy even if you're doing work you're trained and experienced doing. Doing so as a beginner is a tough one. If you're good and fast you don't have to charge as much and still be in the black + but as a beginner you're not going to be good if you go fast nor are you going to be fast if you do good work. Becoming proficient enough to make a profit takes time and costs. Education is expensive. I'm not trying to discourage anybody from pursuing the craft as a business I'm trying to encourage realistic expectations. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 One reason I suggest people take all the small business admin classes they can; NOBODY knows all the ins and outs of running a business these days without a lot of studying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greebe Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 Thanks Frosty, Glenn, & Thomas. I am not new to owning my own business, but have always just looked at equipment purchases as something needed to run my business and since I always buy in cash, I have just absorbed them into my business expenses(or as most entrepreneur do, I spend my personal money). Probably not the best way to run a business, but I cannot charge more for a product just because I bought a new piece of equipment. If I did that I would not get the business. This is in relation to my machine shop. I do add in charges for consumables, and overhead though. It is hard these days being a producer of goods because of cheap Chinese imports and every business trying to undercut the market just to get business. There are guys that have millions of dollar in CNC machines and sell parts cheaper then I can buy materials. They do this just to pay the bills and are not making profit, but it makes it hard to compete. It seems similar in blacksmithing these days. So many hobby smiths selling far under reasonable prices. Like you guys mention, they do not consider the cost to make the product. Not only materials, but consumables such as coal or propane, electricity, property or rent bills, taxes, heating cost(propane), phone bill, internet bill, website bill, selling fees for credit cards, and on and on. Anyways I appreciate the advice. I could definitely improve on how I do things. I am open to more advice by the way. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greebe Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share Posted July 13, 2021 Well, it has been 7 days since I ordered this swage block and I have not heard anything yet. I sent a message on their site as well but have not heard back, so hoping they plan to get it out soon. Would like to get it put into service. Has anyone had experience with Holland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Be patient Covid has everything screwed up, it may be sitting in a warehouse waiting for enough cargo to make sending a truck worth it. Everything I've never heard anything bad about Holland. I know it bites but hang in there, your patience will be rewarded. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greebe Posted July 15, 2021 Author Share Posted July 15, 2021 Frosty, I will try! Btw, i heard back from Holland and they said they had a few issues with their last batch and recast more and it would go out tomorrow. Still waiting to hear what the deal is with my anvil from Morgan Jade. I have a lot of money out and want to see results though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Better to do it right than to do it fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 You aren't really saying you'd rather knowingly pay for a reject tool than wait for a good one are you? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Swage block is a tricky casting to make---all the cores and shapes! I'd rather it was right than fast. They are a reputable business and I wouldn't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Any manufacture that recognizes an issue, then recasts the batch gets my attention. A little extra time to get a good tool that meets their standards is not a problem. It is refreshing to see a manufacturer honest enough to say something had issues and is being remade. Makes you trust the other products they make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greebe Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share Posted July 16, 2021 No, I didn't say I wanted a reject, I was just updating the situation. He had some problems and was fixing them, and sent one of the new ones out to me, which I appreciate. Other people (cough, cough, China)would have just have sent out the rejects. Looks like I should get it Monday which I am excited about. Thanks Holland! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greebe Posted July 21, 2021 Author Share Posted July 21, 2021 Got the swage block today. I looks nice. I did a little clean up this evening. Will post some pics tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Congrats on the items.. I see any investment in shop equipment as a way to simplify my life when I do work. Of course the more things 1 owns the more they are held by these items.. Well unless they are all in a trailer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yanni Rockitz Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 On 7/21/2021 at 1:22 AM, Greebe said: Got the swage block today. I looks nice. I did a little clean up this evening. Will post some pics tomorrow. Greebster -- Inquiring minds want to know -- how'd the swage block and stand turn out? Any pics...? ;-) You like the Holland swage and new anvil...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 On 7/21/2021 at 12:22 AM, Greebe said: Got the swage block today. I looks nice. I did a little clean up this evening. Will post some pics tomorrow did you ever get some pictures? I’m kinda curious myself about how well it works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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