Kexel Werkstatt Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Ok, I did a search using the site:iforgeiron.com technique and did not see anything specific to this question/scenario. My Hay Budden anvil has a 15/16" Hardy hole. Confirmed using two different calipers multiple times on all four sides top and bottom. When I bought the anvil, the gentleman I bought it from was gracious enough to sell me a couple spare hardy tools to get me started (bending fork and a hot-cut). He also sold me a homemade guillotine with a simple fuller die set and I will be making more for it - love that thing. The tools he sold me all have 3/4-7/8" shanks (somewhat standard) - which is definitely close enough but they do still rattle in the hardy hole a bit. What's fun about this is after looking up the old Hay Budden Anvil catalogs my 150lb should have had a 1" hardy hole according to what I saw. But I digress. My options are to either open up the hardy hole to 1" as there are a ton of options out there for 1" Hardy holes. Or, make sleeves to bring up 7/8" hardy tools to 15/16. This would be quite tricky as even if I use simple 1/32" sheet to do so, it goes over 1" total when I'm done... if I sleeve all four sides. I think I've answered my own question, which is to open the hardy hole to 1" and just sleeve the guillotine as best as I can (as they are expensive), and replace the fork and hot cut (not too expensive), and move on. Thing is, I know I'm not experienced enough to have thought about all potential remedies (I do not have a welder FYI),a nd was wondering if any of you all had some input here. Also, if I move forward with opening the hardy hole, is it safe (for the anvil/hardy hole) to just use a simple file to do so? Of course I would take my time doing so and constantly check the dimensions throughout. I can't imagine there being any issues with this method but again I'd rather ask the more experienced folks first. Thanks in advance. I tend to overthink things sometimes but I don't want loose Hardys rattling around causing misshapen hardy hole issues down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 I think it's pretty normal for a hardy hole to be a little under/over nominal. Mine for example is a little oversize and isn't symmetrical. Rather than modifying the anvil itself couldn't you just add a metal shim on the side of the shank to make up the gap? You can made a sleeve to convert the 3/4" shanks, but shimming on one side of the slightly undersized shanks should give you a tight enough fit. I wouldn't go removing any material to enlarge the hole if it were my anvil (which it is not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kexel Werkstatt Posted January 27, 2021 Author Share Posted January 27, 2021 Frazer - thank you and yes totally possible but what I'm wondering is if it makes more sense to just move it up to a 1" which is very standard, and I see a ton of options for tools with 1" shanks, not nearly as many with 7/8" shanks, and I am not ready to make my own Hardys yet (that I could just fit specifically to my Hardy hole/done deal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Shims would be much easier than enlarging the hole. Make shims for two sides instead of just one, to keep the hardy tools from wobbling side to side on the un-shimed side. You mentioned that you didn't have a welder, but maybe you could find someone with one to just run beads down two sides of an undersized hardy shank, then use an angle grinder to grind down the beads to flatten; sized to fit snugly. I have a hardy hole on my HB which is 1", but not perfectly square. I make my hardy tools with 1" bar stock shanks and then add a welded bead or two, ground down to make it fit the un-squareness (like that word?). It's a lot easier to grind down an oversized shank that to broach or chisel the hardy hole down to size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 I'll go the other way; lots more tooling out there for 1" and easy to sleeve down to 3/4 with sq tubing. Also it would make your tools more interchangeable as I hope you will end up with more than one anvil over time. Removing 1/16" is not going to cause major issues with the anvil; but is the face soft enough to file? I have a number of tools for the hardy hole and a number of anvils and I don't think any two of them have exactly the same size hardy hole. Using them over time I sort of know which tool fits which anvil best. (Old Anvils had the holes punched hot and not broached when cold and so it's understandable that they would vary a bit and a smith would make/modify tooling for their anvil.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 I'd definitely go up to the 1" square, especially if you can do it cleanly and with good accuracy. My own anvil's hardy hole is nominally 7/8" square, and I often think it would have been good to enlarge it to a regular 1" before I'd made so much tooling to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Of course a good weld bead on each side of the stem would take care of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kexel Werkstatt Posted January 27, 2021 Author Share Posted January 27, 2021 Thanks guys, I'll move it up to 1" as that was my first instinct and I think it makes the most sense since I only have three total tools for it that are undersized - if I had 20 on the rack that would be different. I plan to take the file vertically from the top on all four sides (slowly/carefully) to see if it does indeed file the face... and if not I'll come from the bottom and use the Dremel with a stone to make the face match the body dimensions. Thanks again all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 What Thomas said above. Do a small weld bead on the hardy shaft and file it to fit your hardy hole. Also, consider this. If you make your own, you dont have a problem. If you mostly buy hardys, you will most likely have a size problem no matter your hardy hole size. Thats why i modify the hardy shaft and leave the anvil alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jealdi Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 According to Google maps, you are only about 3 hours north of me. You could always make it a trip down here if you wanted. Place an order for some mild steel from Sligo (Gotta pick it up before they close at 1600 or 1630). Bring your hardy tools down here with you. Swing by my place. I've got a little MIG we can use to get you some weld beads on your stuff. And you can go home with some mild steel (I think you were one of the guys up there looking for a supplier?). We'll social distance and such (I've had both doses of my vaccine already and have been working from home for a couple months anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kexel Werkstatt Posted January 27, 2021 Author Share Posted January 27, 2021 12 minutes ago, anvil said: What Thomas said above. Do a small weld bead on the hardy shaft and file it to fit your hardy hole. Also, consider this. If you make your own, you dont have a problem. If you mostly buy hardys, you will most likely have a size problem no matter your hardy hole size. Thats why i modify the hardy shaft and leave the anvil alone. Thomas was speaking to JHCC about the bead weld... he suggested to me what I'm doing, making the Hardy hole larger. I also mentioned in the post that I cannot make my own right now... but if I could problem solved. 5 minutes ago, Jealdi said: According to Google maps, you are only about 3 hours north of me. You could always make it a trip down here if you wanted. Place an order for some mild steel from Sligo (Gotta pick it up before they close at 1600 or 1630). Bring your hardy tools down here with you. Swing by my place. I've got a little MIG we can use to get you some weld beads on your stuff. And you can go home with some mild steel (I think you were one of the guys up there looking for a supplier?). We'll social distance and such (I've had both doses of my vaccine already and have been working from home for a couple months anyway). Thanks Jealdi for the offer, very kind. I may take you up on it in the future! Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 It's easy to use an angle grinder to reduce the size of a 1 in hardy shaft to fit a 15/16 hole, that's what I do and shim a smaller hardy shaft to fit snug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kexel Werkstatt Posted January 27, 2021 Author Share Posted January 27, 2021 True, good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jealdi Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Anytime, just let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stash Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 I have 3 different size hardy holes- 3/4i"sh, 1"ish and 1 1/4, with tooling to fit each, more or less. I have done the following to make things fit well: Sleeve with square tubing, cut at the corners and folded over; weld bead then filed ; metal shim; grind stem to fit; wrap or 2 of duct tape- snugs things up nicely and stays around a surprising long time and id quick and cheap. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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