Jobtiel1 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Hi everyone! I recently upgraded from my makeshift charcoal forge to an old rivet forge with a foot pedal cranked blower. Now that I started using coal, I have a problem with the rivet forge, whenever I blow air into the coal, it doesn't seem to warm up unless I crank the clinker breaker, and a lot of the heart of the fire falls down in the ash dump. This wastes a lot of fuel and makes my fire go hollow. But if I don't do this then my metal won't go above a red heat. Is this a fire management issue? Or is it something related to the forge. I'm guessing that small bits of coal clog up the air hole in the bottom of the forge. I attached a picture of the forge before I patched it up, and a picture of how I'm using it at the moment. Any comments or tips are welcome! Thanks in advance for reading and replying! Job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Im guessing you are not using blacksmithing coal. Anthracite is much more difficult to use thsn a coking coal. But, yes, you have a fire maintance problem. You need a poker and a rake if you dont have one. you can use your poker to loosen up your fire to allow more air instead of the clinker breaker. This will prevent your hollow fire problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 Hi Anvil, I do not have much experience with the different coal types and how to recognize them, but from seeing pictures I thought that I had anthracite as well. The coal I'm currently using came with the forge, and as soon as the bag is empty I'm going to start using proper blacksmith's coal. I have a piece of 8 mm round with a point forged on to use as a poker, but I haven't found the right way to use it get to allow air passing through in the same way turning the clinker breaker does. Thanks for your reply! I hope that with experience and proper coking blacksmith's coal the problem goes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Back at you. Take your poker and gently start at the outer edge and work it downwards to the clinker breaker. Then gently lift. This should not break your fire apart but will keep the air flowing. I think if you play with this you will figure it out. After a time in the fire you will get ash and some clinker. Do the same as above with the poker then use the clinker breaker to clean out the ash and small bits of clinker. If you have big pieces of clinker, then use the poker as above and gently lift the large clinker out the top. The less you disturb your fire the better. Check around to find the nearest local ABANA affaliate and see if you can find another smith close by. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 anvil; the nearest ABANA affiliate is quite a ways away from the Netherlands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 If the coal you are using is anthracite it needs a constant air flow to keep the fire hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 Iron dragon: Thanks for the tip, how can I quickly see if the coal is anthracite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 Hi all, I'm posting this update to help people in the future if they encounter the same problem. My problem with the small fire was due to dust and clinker/ small bits of coal in the forge. After cleaning out all the dust and starting with fresh coals my fire works as it did again. Thanks for all the replies tho! Oh, and Anvil, thanks for the help with the fire poker, it works way better than turning the clinker breaker does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Depending on the quality and type of fuel, clinker is what is in the fuel that does not burn. Some coal has very little clinker and or ash, other coals have a lot of both. Let the fire cool for a minute or so before picking out the clinker. Many times it will come out in large pieces. The cooling lets it solidify into a single mass. Depending on the orientation of the clinker breaker, which side is up, you can get a different type air flow into the fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Thomas, i use my phone and location is not shown. Thanks for letting me know where he is in the world. Jobtiel, the point was to see if you can find a local blacksmith to help you out. Joey Van der Steeg is a great young smith from the Netherlands, i believe. He posts here as technicus joe and has great vids on youtube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 Glenn, thanks for your reply! I was forging when I got the notification of your post, and I tried to fish out the clinkers once my fire got noticeably duller and colder again. However, I noticed that I was unable to fish out any clinker, even after the forge was completely cooled down, the clinker I could find were all small pieces. Could this be due to the absence of a firepot? Or am I missing something on removing clinker from the fire? As it is now, I'd have to completely break up the fire to remove clinker every ~2 hours. Anvil, thanks for the tip! I know of Joey, and am a fan of his videos, I've even met him while he was doing a demo 2 months ago. AFAIK he lives roughly 1.5/2 hours drive away from me. I might ask him for help sometime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 If have to remove clinker only every ~2 hours, consider it part of fire maintenance. Keep some of the hot coals off to the side and when the clinker is removed, put the hot coals back into the fire pot, add fuel, add air, and the fire should restart in short order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 Glenn, this doesn't seem like too much of a problem, and doing this often will inevitably lead to me being faster and better at it! Thanks for the helps, is it however normal for the clinkers to be quite small? I'm talking about 1 cm diameter max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Hey Jobtiel1, it all depends on the coal and the forge. I never get a "doughnut" ring of clinker myself. It is always bits and pieces. Mostly small but some a little larger. I forged a forge spoon to scoop them out when need be. A lot of it will just fall down the tuyere holes with a little work after I push the coke and coals out from the center to clean it out a bit. In between, poking through the center into the holes in my tuyere keeps everything going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Normal is a tablespoon of fine ashy clinker to a doughnut of glassy clinker you can hang on a nail on the wall. (Stone County Ironworks used to hang their "best" examples on the wall.) It depends a lot on the coal and what you are doing with the forge---burning lots for forge welding with the extra scale and flux can make for massive ones. Small fires for delicate work you may only clean out at lunch and the end of the day. In my experience electric blowers tend to burn more coal and so produce more clinker than the same coal with a hand crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 Daswulf: yeah I think I have quite a clean coal then, I see only small bits of shiny clinker when I clean the forge out, but a lot of dark unburnt ash and small pieces of what I presume is coke. I think I will follow your lead and forge a spoon for taking out the clinker too! I just have to make sure I clean the fire in such a way that I can easily restart it again. Thomas: first off all, thanks for your help and tips on this and several of my other recent posts. I have a foot pedal cranked blower on the river forge. So far I haven't forge welded on the river forge, as I read that it is much more difficult to do without a fire pit to help create a deep fire. But I have been heating stock up to 20mm thick, as well as small scroll work on firestrikers, I guess that with this kind of work the clinker stays small and broken up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 Hi, I've been using the forge for a while now, and there is one big problem I have at the moment. The band that connects the blower with the cast iron wheel of the foot pedal. I replaced it after the one I got with the forge broke. I use a piece of ratchet strap, but that one is on the end of it's life now too. What do you suggest I use as the new band to connect the blower too the pedal, I found some leather band online but that is quite expensive, are there any budget alternatives that I don't know about? Thanks for your help and replies. ~Jobtiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 A friend of mine went to a local thrift store and bought two or three leather belts for about a US dollar each that were the same width & thickness. He skived the ends and stitched them together using rubber cement. The last time I saw him it was still going strong after about 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 Hi Irondragon, thanks for your reply, this is exactly the kind of idea I was looking for. It's a great idea! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 12/27/2020 at 10:02 AM, Jobtiel1 said: old rivet forge with a foot pedal cranked blower That’s a pretty cool forge Jobtiel1, I haven’t seen one of those before! although I’ve never been to the Netherlands either lol, Are they common there? Do you know the manufacture by chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 Hi TW, I don't know the manufacturer of these things. But they are everywhere around here, I guess this is our version of the hand cranked blower, hence why there are not a lot of those to be found. They are called "veldsmidse" or field forge. I guess these forges were made to be easily transportable and work everywhere, kind of the same as a rivet forge. They work well enough if the band doesn't slip, but after about a year I upgraded the forge with an actual firepot and an electric blower. I still have the old parts laying around in case I want to change it back for some event without electricity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 That’s very interesting! kinda what I was thinking, That it was like a rivet forge is here in the US, the rivet forges are everywhere around here too, most of these here are cast iron though, it looks like yours is all steel construction, I like that better! half of the rivet forges I find are cracked because people didn’t line the cast iron pans… do you happen to have more pictures of it? From the side an underneath with the original parts on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 The grate part kind of "hill" on this one was cast iron as well, but often you see these with cast iron firepots. I do have a picture with the set up after I installed the new firepot, it shows how it works but is not the completely original set up. Also a picture of my old set up outside, if you zoom in you can have a better view from the other side. This picture is still with the original config. ~Jobtiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 That’s awesome! Thank you for sharing the pictures! I like seeing different types of older factory made forges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 I did an image search for the word veldsmidse so I could look at other old field forges and I saw some very interesting setups, I came across what I’m assuming is a modern version of your forge, but I couldn’t get the translator to work so I couldn’t read about it, I also came across another interesting forge picture not the same construction but still interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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