Peter Wright anvil

[Deimos]

So i bought this Peter Wright, it does not have the England stamp, so it should be pretty xxxx old. 

When i got it it was covered with rust prevention paint or something, making it real hard to see if it had any damage on it, i cleaned it up today and i would love to hear your opinion about it. Just to know if i bought a workable anvil or a garden ornament. It weighs about 196 pound and came with a baby brother.

 

[ThomasPowers]

Well what I would check is: how thick the forge welded on steel face was and if it was still hardened, (not been in a structure fire)---the ball bearing test would tell the latter; close examination the former.

It looks ok but the proof is in the using!  Note older anvils often have the face plate welded on in sections and where sections meet may be slightly softer and wear faster---looks to me like that white line in the first picture may be such a contact line.

I recently sold a 248# Peter Wright that was not in that good of shape. (US$1000 or about $4/#) Mine was probably used in the mines out here for repointing rock drilling tools.  Had one edge chewed up and showed some dents on the face---larger anvils often were tempered a bit softer as they were used with strikers and sledges and accidents do happen. (I have 2 anvils above 400# and 2 at 165# and so didn't need an intermediate sized one...)

[Deimos]

I dropped a ball bearing on multiple spots of the anvil, 25 cm from the surface gave me a bounce of about 23 cm. 

Looking at the side of the anvil, i see a line about 15 mm below the top, so i guess that would be where it was welded?

[anvil]

Sounds like you have a winner!

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Congratulations!

I believe 15mm would be fairly thick for that weight.

I have a 138# PW that has a divot in the face near the horn. I also see a lot of PW's with a lot of sway, so I am not totally sold on them as being fantastic anvils, but still really nice. Others have said the hardening was kind of hit or miss with them, some are great, some less so. If you are not swinging a 10# sledge on it every day you should be fine. It doesn't appear to be in bad shape other than the one area on the face.

 

Be mindful of how it was constructed, work within its limitations, and it will outlast you.

[ThomasPowers]

If that is the weld line, it's .6" which is a good thick face---please don't grind/mill any of the face off!  The ball bearing return is great too; so as previous said: Looks like you have a winner!

As most of the hardy tooling I find has 1" stems on it I have made a drop in hardy hole reducer for my large anvils. I took some sq tubing and cut the diagonals down about 25mm and heated the tabs and bent them 90 deg so it will drop in with the tabs resting on the face.  For my largest anvils I had to nest two tubes to get it from 1.5" to 1". I'm slowly taking top tooling, bough cheap with damaged striking areas, and forging them into bottom tooling with 1.5" stems. The squashed eyes from where they were handled is not a problem.

[Deimos]

From what i have found about PW's is that they indeed are more prone to sway thanks to the way they where cast (something about using iron that was to high quality instead of using scrap), mine is swayed a little, i will try to measure it tomorrow.

Since i am just beginning i will at most be using a 0.9 kg hammer, I don't want to blow out my elbow. The Essential Craftsman on YouTube was saying something about using a 40 to 1 rule for hammer weight, so with my 89 kg anvil i should be able to use a 2,2 kg hammer, something i wont be trying very fast.

My Hardy hole is about 30 mm, and i have had no luck yet finding Hardy's that would fit it, so making drop ins would be a good idea for me to, or making my own hardy's.

[ThomasPowers]

You can also use angle iron to make a 2 sided insert with only 2 tabs.  Hardy holes were generally hot punched, especially in older anvils and so may not be a true square or may be slightly angled compared to the face.  Not usually a problem.  Note that with angle iron you can grind an insert to "fit" perfectly.

By the way Peter Wrights are NOT cast they were forged from real wrought iron with a high carbon steel faceplate forge welded on.  This the the common "traditional" way to make anvils; with the older the anvil usually consisting of more pieces forge welded together.  They used high grade real wrought iron which is much more malleable than lower grades and so the problem with heavy work causing sway.  Usually sway is not an issue as most of us are generally working across the face rather than along the face.  In fact I use my anvil with some sway for straightening blades as I can push it just a bit too far and have it rebound to dead straight.

Having a large flat surface is handy to have for things like truing trivets and legs on things.  I have a slab of steel for that.

[Deimos]

Again, thank you for correcting me

Are there really people who grind down the "good" part of an anvil? 

From what i have seen on my PW it has a small dip along the face, but across the face it looks pretty flat. 

[anvil]

There is no hammer weight to anvil weight. The critical deal is to make as solid of a connection from anvil to stand and from stand to ground. All things being equal, this in a perfect world means the mass of your anvil = that of the earth.

A good weight for a hammer is ~ 2-1/2#. Sorry, no metric here. 

For future reference, it is not hard to reface your PW and bring the face up to flat. Perhaps it's not critical for you now, but who knows what the future may bring.

 

 

 

[Deimos]

I have some experience with repairing cast steel/iron and other hard types of steel (Mangalloy) so i have a rough idea of what i need to do to keep the anvil from cracking or losing its temper. But i will only get to that when i actually run into a problem, for now i need to learn how to make my hammer hit the hot steel in the right way .

I have no problem with making mistakes (how can one learn without) but fixing a anvil and then damaging it again because of a lack of skill is just silly.

 

[Glenn]

Do not do anything to the anvil until you have a years hammer time on it. (2000 hours).  By then you will know if you need any modifications.  Usually there is a simple work-a-round for most problems.

[Deimos]

I will take that advice to hart, and work-a-rounds are what makes crafting so much fun.

[ThomasPowers]

Actually by the time I learned that there was a good method of repairing anvils  I had forgotten that my anvils needed repair; their flaws had become "features".  (Not exactly true as I have had 2 anvils repaired in the 2 decades after I learned of the correct method.  One I subsequently sold on, the other is in the "clean shop" though at just over 400 pounds it's a bit much for jewelry and armour work...the face was polished in the repair and so my best anvil for nonferrous work...)

That brings to mind the difference between folks who see an anvil as a tool---to be treated right, but also to be used and those who see it as a symbol  imbued with mystic history and should be appreciated for it's age and prior use. We get some here that when we tell them their anvil is over 100 years old tell us they won't touch it with a hammer!  Which is ridiculous in my opinion.  19th century smiths didn't worship their anvils! They were meant to be used; put another 100+ years of work on them and let a couple of generations down the line make that decision!

Now abuse is abuse no matter when it happens. The old oil field cable tool rigs that pounded a hole and had their drill bits reforged on a regular basis tended to use their bridge anvils as consumables. I don't think I have ever seen one that wasn't beat to heck; but it was much cheaper to replace the anvil than to slow down drilling and they had the option to replace them with new ones as needed. 

[Deimos]

I agree with that, tools are there to be used (not abused, unless its cheap trash that wont survive normal use anyway), from what i can find my anvil was made between 1860-1890, and with such a nice ring to her, i think she rather works again then just sit in shed and be part of a collection.

Worshipping is one thing, respect is another. 

 

[Deimos]

As promised, there is a dip of about 1,05 to 1,1 mm max. (could not have timed the picture better, thanks doggo)

And a picture of the little anvil thingy that came with the PW, does not appear to be super hard so i wont be doing anything with it, or is there a specific use for a hardy like this?

[JHCC]

That is not intended for use in the hardy hole, but embedded in a separate stump for delicate work. 

My own Mousehole (aka The Undisputed King of Anvils) has a similar weld line on the face. By happy coincidence, it's almost exactly 8" (~20cm) from the heel, which is a very convenient measuring tool. Take some time with a ruler to note the various dimensions and distances on your anvil; they can be very handy quick references when you're in the middle of forging.

[Deimos]

Thank you for that information and the tip, i had not thought about using the imperfections as a measuring tool.

[ThomasPowers]

Small Jewelers anvil, handy for delicate work on pocket knives, installing pins, etc.  As mentioned intended for use in a benchtop holder not the hardy hole.

That's hardly enough sway to count!

[Deimos]

So in other words, i was very lucky to have found this anvil 

[JHCC]

And the Understatement of the Month Award goes to Deimos in Vlijmen!

[ThomasPowers]

Only if you use it to forge on!

[Deimos]

25 minutes ago, JHCC said:

And the Understatement of the Month Award goes to Deimos in Vlijmen!

I hope there is a trophy attached to that

And i will start to forge on it, i am almost done fireproofing and cleaning out my shed and later this week i will be able to pick up the metal i ordered for a anvil stand and other stuff.

The problem with this country is that we throw away everything, and there are no scrapyards where you can just go and buy metal. Everything need to be either new or found by searching the 2nd hand market (and the people there know what they have so they ask prices that rival the prices for new stuff).

[ThomasPowers]

Sure there is a trophy; just go down to the DIY store and buy a can of gold spray paint. Then tape off the face of your anvil and spray the rest of it gold. Voila a trophy!

[JHCC]

6 minutes ago, Deimos said:

we throw away everything, and there are no scrapyards where you can just go and buy metal.

The thing to do is see if you can connect with the people who do the hauling. If they know what you're looking for and that you're willing to pay for it, they might be willing to send some stuff your way.