Making my own flux

[Buzzkill]

Whether it's alloy content that changes, crystal structure, or something else, many of us have personally experienced significantly different behaviors/results within inches of the same bar of stock.  When that happens it doesn't really matter if someone claims it doesn't happen, can't happen, or won't happen.  It just is.  I have personally had rebar stock that behaved like mild steel on one section of the bar and didn't harden when quenched and then a foot away or so on the same bar of stock it did harden and break.  

I've also had A36 where I've drilled several holes without incident and then the next one didn't get more than about 1/8" in before the bit started screeching.  Skipping that hole temporarily and moving over to the next resulted in another hole that drilled as expected.  This was on stock that I had not heated at all before drilling, so it was not affected by forging or anything of that nature.  Whenever that happens to me I find that heating the piece up to a dull red and letting it cool to ambient temperature tends to allow for normal drilling.

So again, regardless of what anyone claims is true or not true, it's pretty darned hard to convince some of us who have personally experienced differences in the same piece of stock within a few inches that it's all homogeneous tightly regulated product.

[jlpservicesinc]

Well said Buzzkill.

 

Observations are often times in practical moment real use, vs what happens based on specs which get touted as the only 
"Real" information.  

[Chris Williams]

On 1/13/2020 at 5:51 PM, Buzzkill said:

...pretty darned hard to convince some of us who have personally experienced differences in the same piece of stock within a few inches that it's all homogeneous tightly regulated product.

Specs tend to control bulk properties and define allowable types, sizes, and spacing for defects. The drilling issue in A36 could easily be due to hitting an inclusion.  This does not apply to all anecdotes presented, but several are within the allowable variation in the material. Plus, for those that only control a limited number of properties (typically tensile strength) to a minimum and with no control over heat treat response (because the product is intended to be used as delivered or isn't meant to be hardened), it should not be surprising that the material is inconsistent in other ways that are not controlled by the spec. 

The behavior of the material once it has been further thermally processed (by us) is out of scope of the spec entirely. 

[localsmith]

Interesting discussion. I've never personally noticed a difference between 1018 (new steel?) and A36. I definitely can see how it can have inclusions but during the forging process those should be forged out (or rather melted out) if they are made out of aluminum and any other alloys that have a lower melting point than steel unless I'm mistaken. 

[Steve Sells]

Funny you say that; when you stated in another thread how you cant forge weld A36 but can 1018. as well as how its harder to forge, and what is this about Aluminum? any in the melt as a contaminate or deoxidant would float out in the slag

[ThomasPowers]

Al was used to "kill" steel.

"Killed steel is steel that has been completely deoxidized by the addition of an agent before casting such that there is practically no evolution of gas during solidification." wiki

[Donal Harris]

On 4/23/2019 at 11:23 PM, ThomasPowers said:

We have sand dunes out here and you could select finer sand wind or water sorted.

What about diatomaceous earth?

[Frosty]

Microscopic, Silicate, Diatom skeletons and relatively pure. It should work better than sand.

I like looking at them under a microscope, they're as varied as snowflakes. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[SLAG]

Folks,

Silica sand works a treat for me.

It is relatively cheap. You can get it a building supply store.

The stores that carry block, bricks,  etc.

SLAG.

[Toàdilly green]

Hi guys, sorry brand new to this and trying to get up to speed without reading for a month no stop to try find some simple information. I'm keen to start making knives and when you make Damascus steel or forge weld steel the power I take it is flux. If so whatz the best deal I live in Zimbabwe and in a small town so not much available at the next of times.

Thsnks for the help

[jlpservicesinc]

I'll help out with some simple suggestions.. first off, put where you are from in your information.. this is important so people local to you or geographically might off suggestions based on local.. 

If you are just starting out "Flux" is handy..  It's handy most times..   But, it is possible to weld steels without flux and some prefer it as there are less chance of inclusions in the welds.. Also with no flux the metal won't have as large a recognized welded zone when doing pattern welded blades. 

So..  If you are just starting, we can assume you have no experience what so ever..   Do you have equipment?  Or just wanting information so you can "buy equipment"..  

I look at forge welding as a basic skill set, and it is not magic.. Easy to do really once you understand what you are after. 

[ThomasPowers]

It depends on the alloys, it is possible to do without flux, look at cannister damascus, regular steels do well with borax, sold  cheaply in the USA as a "laundry additive".  I like to add in some boric acid, about 1:3 with borax.  Boric acid is sold cheaply in the USA as a cockroach killer.  High chromium steels require a toxic flux that I don't recommend working with and am not going to describe.

Note if you have read the "Read This First" sticky you should know how to effectively search this site to cut down the amount you have to read to get an answer.

[SLAG]

Mr. T.D.,

I suggest that you try acquiring basic knowledge and experience in how to hammer hot steel before trying to smith knives.

The second suggestion is to smith knives with carbon steel, such as 1095 or 1084 before you try pattern welded steel.

For basic blacksmithing in the Third World try 

Agricultural Engineering in Development: Basic Blacksmithing : a Training Manual - J. B. Stokes, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations - Google Books

Also hunt down the second book in the series.

Both of these texts are a free download.

But forget the third book because it is too specialized.

Those books were developed for countries with few smithing resources.

ABANA has a series of chapters on basic blacksmith techniques and how to move hot metal.

Making tongs is NOT a good first project. fashion some simpler items before bighting too much for the first breakfast.

Good luck with it. Expect to make many mistakes,   then crude items before you get good results. We all started out with next to nothing skills and developed them with time, perseverance, and drive.

 But enjoy it along the way.

Regards,

SLAG

p.s. check out bamsite.com/books  for other books that are free. (after you read through the two books listed above).