KYBOY Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 What kind of work goes into a forged piece..Along with the price of steel right now. Say you have a piece that took 1 solid hour to forge and has 10$-$12 worth of steel in it. You ask $30 and people say "whoa, too high!" :confused: Oh well, I guess folks would rather pay $15 at wally world and replace it every year..:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Don't sell to those people. A lot of talk goes into this, and a fair assessment (I think) is that professional blacksmiths (or at least people trying) are more successful when they focus on the high end market. Sell iron work to the people building the million dollar home up on the hill. Sell to the owners of the upscale shops and restaurants. Sell to the rich snobs you wouldn't normally associate with. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchmancreek Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 People need to understand that each piece is unique and hand made. Art work is not a bad comparison. A lot more people appreciate this than you would think. Some people buy only by price...let them, because you'll never change their mind. There's always those who will buy hand work and pay for good craftsmanship. If nothing else works, raise the price and you might find a whole new market. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 The pricing subject has been discussed in other posts. You can either cover your cost of materials, add something for your labor, and add some more for equipment and repairs to old equipment, or take the easy way out, just open your wallet and give the fellow a $20 bill. If you don't cover your cost, then you ARE, in effect, giving him YOUR money. As a skilled craftsman you are making a one-off product that should last a lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Yeah, nothing new under the sun here . . . My basic response to anyone who tells me they can get it somewhere else cheaper is " Super! - Sounds like you found what you're looking for!" RegionalChaos has it right . . . focus on the higher end market - even if they don't have a true appreciation for the handmade aspect of your work - they'll use the higher price as bragging rights. There was a recent article in the local paper here about people paying fifteen bucks a cup for gourmet coffee. That same week I had people look at some of my 4 dollar hooks and say: "We'll think about it". It's all about how people perceive value and there's just no way to predict it or understand it. Humans are funny, funny, critters . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 True enough..Ill hagle a bit on my prices espically where multiple items are bought but Ill not give my time and materials away. We operate a small farm, well really my wife "operates it" (I.E, she takes the money ). We sell some produce and poultry products. I think Ill have to seperate the clientell between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keykeeper Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 KYBOY: It's sad to say, but we live in a world full of the "I can just run over and buy it at Captain Wally's Emporium of Pacific Rim Imports for a lot cheaper" mentality. What they don't realize is the value of a hand crafted item that will more than likely outlast the Monopoly perpetuated by said "import mongers". Ignore them, don't argue with em, someone else will understand the value. Until then, keep the item, look at it with pride and say to yourself "Hmm, can't buy this kind of quality at Captain Wally's, now can ya?". You'll feel a lot better, in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Beuler Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 KYBOY, the age old blacksmith's chagrin of educating the public on what defines wrought iron is a neverending slope to climb. Unfortunately the prevailing mentality out there is one of push button immediate satisfaction. In other words, they want the best, they want it right now, and it better be cheap! Sure, wally world can sell you a lawnmower but what do you do when it needs service? The answer is wally world can't fix squat for you, so throw it away and buy another one from them. Folks have been conditioned to this to the point that they don't know craftsmanship when they see it, they just assume that your wrought iron item should cost $9.99 because the same type of "wrought iron" item casts that much at wally world. Don't worry, King George says the economy is looking up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I often joke with people telling them I am going to buy a stamp that says " TAIWAN". That way I'll sell more stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmonds Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I Like It!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayco Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 When I was a kid, I remember old folks talking about their 'home made' clothes, tools, wagons, chairs, etc,........and how they were glad to get 'store bought' or 'factory made' items as their economic situations improved. They had a clear belief that whatever was newer was better. Of course, that is not always the case, but I suspect that the owners of stores and factories had much to gain by weaning folks from their self sufficiency. That bias has been in place for many years. KYBOY, I think you're right that people don't understand what is required to produce a handforged item........believing instead that "faster + cheaper = better". I can't offer any really good advice on the subject, since I don't sell a lot of stuff myself. I have a small group of customers who come around from time to time wanting repairs or wanting me to forge something for them. A while back, I came up with the idea for an easy to make' Christmas Tree ornament' ,showed it to a few customers , friends, and neighbors........now I have orders for a bunch of them...........Who would've thought!?! James Flannery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Where do you guys buy your shop supplies ( grinders,sanders,drill motors etc. ) Probally harbour freight , northern or somewhere like that. It would think that it would be really hard to cast the first stone when I am probally as guilty of doing the same sort of thing. Mike Tanner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan W Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I've seen this phrase used a number of times in all manner of places on any number of topics here and after due consideration and a few years of experience it is my humble opinion that you cant educate people who have no desire to learn, with the exception of a very select few of course. After 'dodabbing' around a forge for awhile I have a whole new appreciation for the blacksmith and his work. I once traded a baker flintlock rifle with bayonet for a forged pipe hawk and feel I got the better end of the deal because I know what went into the making of that piece. Mainstrean America doesnt want to know how, what, when or why, they just want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 i could buy a lot of hf xxxx....not I. When i buy steel i buy it from the Amish...cash and usually less expensive....same with coal and propane...tools the worst thing i do is go to the black and decker factory outlet in reading and get a grinder for 25 bucks....i have all "American" cars .... i got alot of stuff outta a steel plant our family used to work at....but i do what i can not to use the HF's of the world ....never been in a walmart....i look for auctions if i need somethin....nothin i have is new...i dont care f it helps anyone anymore but i know where it came from and i sleep better and do not live any worse for the cause of it...so cheep cheep is just a bird call to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobinu Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Sometimes Cheep is use more for when people really mean easy. Often easy is only just the advertising perspective, and not truely any easier. I buy Canadian as much as possible but I have a hard time finding all these auctions, sales, and "found" steel like you guys talk about. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Leppo Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 fat pete Where does the Amish steel come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I disagree a little that people don't understand the difference between handcrafted and machine-stamped. I think many people do know the difference, but it's just not in the budget. If you're talking about a fireplace poker, or something like that, it just won't break in a year. That ugly thing will last for many years. Maybe not a lifetime, but long enough to make them happy. I know the difference between a Ford Focus and a Porsche 911. The Porsche is worth the money, but it's money I don't have. So does it make sense for Mr. Porsche to get angry with me because I just don't have the money to buy is obviously superior machine? Am I just some unwashed Wally-World shopper who needs to be educated? I see these discussions pop up all the time, with people saying we need to educated the public better. You can sense the frustration and anger. I say it's simple economics and knowing your market. As someone mentioned above, sell to who can afford it. Anger won't make your products better. And selling cheap won't pay the rent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I think the Porsche being worth the money is a matter of opinion. They are a pain in the neck to drive if you are 6 foot tall or more. If you want value for your dollar, buy a Toyota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofthesmith Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 i think walmart has a place in this world, for grocerys and candles and...such. cuz in the city there are not alot of farmers markets and family stores. HOWEVER. i do believe in small buisnesses, my dad owns an appliance service station and he does alot of the repairs himself. but yall are right people dont care about quality, there perfectly happy funding comunists in china. also im 6' and i can fit in my dads old 82 porch...its just the xxxx clutch thats hard thing only like 3cm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayco Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Over the years I've made more than one piece with a lot of 'sweat equity' in it that didn't sell......or nobody wanted(same thing, actually) At first, I got angry about it, then I realized that griping about it didn't do any good. At was at that point that i realized there was as much art and skill involved in selling as there was in forging. Learning that lesson helped me. Now I actually enjoy trying to figure out what the customer ( the public ) wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentin Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Funny... go to a car service and see how much they charge for hour... go to a lawywer and see how much.Ask your customer how much he makes/hour actualy the lawywer the barber and so on is your customer. BUT there are 3 kinds of customers 1. Customer with not a lot of money. 2. Customer with a lot of money and willing to pay. 3. Customer with a lot of money that don't want to pay. It's a shame to loose any of them.The most problematic are the no^3 A week ago i had a customer... It was the 3rd or 4th time that he came to the shop to ask about the price for some gates that he wanted. (2...3 month before was the 1st time that he came ) He came toghether with his wife ...asked me again the price i tolde him X USD ..well he got so mad that i was charging him ,,that much'' that he went outside the office had a smoke (BTW in my office smoking IS alowed i have an ashtray on my desk ) walked arround came back in for it;s wife ...asked me if i can do it cheaper i sayed NO ! he left again, and after an hour or so he came back with the 50% of the value to start the job . BTW every customer that you satisfy will probably bring you another customer. It's a shame to let them walk but most of them come back if u are polite and present him the benefit that he has buying your products Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 goatman.... 1st move thoought was to say from the ground just like us........ there are a couple of the menonite machine shops that keep bar stock of all sorts...I go down to cocalico and they give me drops and I can buy steel from them off the racks for anywhere from 60 to 90 cents a pound.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 fat pete Where does the Amish steel come from? Presumably, the cementation process ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I'm guessing that few of you have visited any of the Amish factories. *Very* well tooled up; except that the tools all run on compressed air or hydraulics or even flat belts for the older ones. People commonly make the mistake that no electricity means no modern tools and while this does apply to computerized things there is a whole lot of technology that doesn't use computers that is still available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 There's a big difference between blacksmiths and mechanics, lawyers, plumbers, ... The general population needs what those folks offer. Most people can't fix their own cars, or really don't want to know how to. Same with plumbing. And the system is written to discourage DIY lawyers. We pay them out of the emergency funds and cry when we fork over a week, or more, of pay. Blacksmiths today make stuff that nobody really needs. A hand-forged fireplace set would surely be nice to have, but the Walmart version will function just as well for long enough. An import candle sconce will last just as long and give as much light as a work of art. This is from disposable funds, and totally a matter of personal taste. A demonstrator at one of our meets, I think it was Walt Scadden, said that, "We make fancy stuff for rich people". I know quite a few professional blacksmiths and only one makes smaller stuff - fireplace tools, sconces, chandeliers. And he's had some very tough times making a living at it. Everyone else is into architectural ironwork. They have some nice custom jobs that are small, but the real income is railings, gates, etc, all going into multi-million-dollar homes, corporate offices, hotel lobbies, ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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