New Creation: Critique!

[Nick Brodsky]

Heyas everyone! 

First off... thank you for all of your encouragement and information.  Here's the result of our first go at building a gas forge a la 'cart'... you'll see what I did there.  It gets hot, it makes things glow, and it makes the mother nervous... so we must be on the right track.  Would you all take a peek and offer suggestions to our design?  Ultimately, my son, Nick, wants the ability to forge weld, but it seems like we're just a little shy of that mark as of right now.

In a couple of the images below I've placed a good ol' Coke can in frame for reference, but belatedly realized that most of you know the size and shape of every brick ever made and mumble them in your sleep. 

So... what could we do better?  What are we doing wrong from the outset?  And most importantly, what do you need to know to answer these questions - we're as new as new can be, but we'd like to do it right.

Cheers!

Troy and Nick

 

[Glenn]

Please replace the orange ratchet straps ASAP. You can find steel banding in the trash at many businesses. Add a turnbuckle and you should be able to adjust the banding easily. 

[sfeile]

The one thing I see, is that looks like hard fire brick. If it is, it doesn't insulate very well. I learned that the hard way making my own first forge from hard brick. It steals as much heat as it retains. This will use a lot more gas and take a lot more time to heat a piece. It can also cause you a problem with your wooden boards underneath it allowing too much heat through and heating up your plate on the bottom. In the photo where it is lit, you see the pieces in direct contact with the flame glowing brightly, but the rest is not. That's where your heat is going instead of into your work.

I'm not sure why the shelf is in the back, but that is going to be another place you lose heat. Just an extra thing to heat up.

With the burner towards the front, you can probably lose one brick length in the back to make it more efficient also. If I'm figuring correctly, you are around 448 cubic inches in that configuration (minus a bit for the shelf) which is most likely exceeding the space you can heat effectively with that burner. I'm thinking that burner should be good for about 350 cubic inches.

I understand working with what you can get. Try removing the last section of length and doubling your floor. That will reduce your inside dimensions and should heat a little better until you can get better materials. Also, as Glen said, get rid of the flammable straps. And probably the wood underneath as well. Coating the inside with an IR reflective like Plistix may help some also. I'm sure others will be a long soon with more experience than I have though.

[stevomiller]

Hi Nick,

What those guys said.

Also can you show more pics/info on the burner you are using?

thanks!

[Mikey98118]

You also need to move the burner  up inside the brick, instead of letting it protrude into the heating chamber.

[Nick Brodsky]

Awesomeness.  We'll get on all of these and then repost when we've got things a little more finely tuned.  Thanks everyone, we love that you're all willing to share experience - we certainly need it.

1.  Straps.  Check.  Good catch.  

2.  Soft Brick:  Any recommendations?  We're learning names and numbers, but it's always good to go to the pros with specs.  It totally makes sense that the heat is sinking into those hot spots.  We'll modify the floor and work some IR magic and see if we can get things a little warmer, too.)

3.  More images of the burner - we'll get those and a link.

4.  Burner.  We'll move it up so it's not flush and see what happens.  

Cheers and thanks everyone!  If you all think of anything more, don't hesitate to let us know.
 

Troy and Nick

[sfeile]

I use a 2 and 1/2 inch thick K26 brick. (2600 degree rating) I got a case of them from amazon. Shipping is what kills you on those, usually as much as the brick itself. Maybe check local pottery places as it's sometimes used as kiln brick also.  The only issue I would see with using soft brick in the configuration you currently have, is that is breaks very easily. The continued thermo-cycling of the forge use will cause a lot of cracking as they heat and cool. Mine is enclosed in a metal box, so it isn't as big of an issue to me as it all stays contained and basically in one piece. Your open sides may allow pieces to fall off and become unstable letting it fall apart.

You can try coating the brick you currently have with an IR coating. If you shorten it by one section, add a layer of brick to the floor, and coat the entire inside with Plistix or Matrikote, it should get pretty hot fairly quickly. At least enough to get you moving some metal and see what you like or don't like about it with only a $20 or so investment. Then you can use that experience to decide if you want to run that style with better refractory long term, or change it up completely.

Being a similar setup, I have my burner roughly an inch back into my top refractory. It may not be the ideal number, but it is working well in my forge.

[Frosty]

K-26 ceramic tile (fire brick) is much tougher, rated to a high enough temperature and is NOT a heat sink. Check with a HVAC supply, or HVAC service company if you can't find a supplier and ask where they buy materials. I believe K type light fire brick is replacing the old light insulating fire brick in general. One of our guys buys it by the pallet to keep his bronze melters working. His propane forge has been lined with the same K-26 bricks for about 3 years now and he's only had to replace the ones that get dropped.

Amazon prime doesn't charge for shipping. Axner supply charges about $5.35 ea. for a box of 12 plus shipping but they're light so that's not too too. Check the web site they have quantity discount and lots of cool stuff a boy who likes to play with fire and mud can enjoy.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[ThomasPowers]

I suggest you tell us what you want to use it for.  Hard to critique a design without knowing what it's supposed to do...

(besides which when you say "I want to forge a *SWORD*!" you will be able to rate our winces using the Richter scale...)

[Nick Brodsky]

Hi, this is Nick. Thanks for all of the ideas for my forge.  What would you think about replacing the hot face fire bricks with K26 bricks? Or K26 bricks with an IR coating?

I'm using a 0-20 regulator. Should it be 0-30 for better heat?

So far, I've been working on knives, hatchets, and some camping gear like tent stakes. Eventually I want to make my own tongs and other tools.

 

Thanks again.

 

Oh, and we are replacing the straps and the wood in the next couple of days.

[Binesman]

You want to forge weld so lets start with the obvious things that need fixed to get there.

 

1. Current internal size 730 cubic inches.

You will need two 1" burners to get this reliably to forge weld temps.  Or take your 

2. Hard firebrick.

As stated above switch to a k26.

3.  No reflective coating.

Put down a layer of matrikote or plistex.