John Call Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Hello all, I'm a long time reader first time poster. I've been getting more into blacksmithing and have been wanting to make a better anvil than the short hunk of railroad track I've been using. I have access to about twenty feet of track and have been researching how to make a better anvil out of it. I have two ideas sketched out and was hoping for some feedback. (Sorry it's side-ways) The first idea i took from a video series It uses two sections of rail (blue) welded together and filled with weld (green) on top. A tool steel plate (pink) is welded on top and then a box (red) is welded on the bottom and filled with lead (grey) to add mass. I'd fill the section inside the rails with lead as well. From what I understand the lead would only add mass to the anvil, and would not be akin to solid steel all the way through. But I figure it can't hurt. Especially if it's cast into place and completely enclosed with steel caps so it can't rattle around and turn into a 90# dead blow mallet. My other idea is an evolution of the first. This use three sections of track (blue). Two upright sections welded at the base supporting a third placed upside-down and nested into the others. All three would be welded substantially at every point they touch. Again a box (red) would be welded on the base and all voids filled with lead (grey). The top would be filled with weld (green) and ground flat, with a tool steel plate (pink) on top. The green weld on top is exaggerated a great deal. My thought is that this second design would provide a wide surface (which maybe I don't need, given a long anvil?) supported straight down through three track webs. Though the lead in these designs doesn't rebound the way steel does, of course. I'm thinking that if it is encapsulated in steel with nowhere to go, it can't act to much like a dead blow mallet and defeat the purpose of adding all that mass. What do you all think? Will one of these combined with stout attachment to a large, heavy log-stand planted a few feet into the ground make a decent anvil? Or am I nutter? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 The first thing to remember is that rail is high carbon steel, this means preheating the rail to about 500f and insulating it some how so it cools slowly, otherwise you seriusly run the risk of cracking. The fuel and welding consumables may be more expensive than a drop from a scrap yard. Rail is good steal, 20’ of it is great. The flange is already taped to make punches and drifts, the flange is 7/8 thick and the head is just begging to be hammer heads and top tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Welcome aboard John, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the gang live within visiting distance. I've made welded anvils built up from 3 sections of rail as in your second sketch. This is how rail is stacked to ship or store it's the most stable and takes up the least space. The rails of the base pair have just enough room between them for the web of the upper (inverted) rail to slip between. The radius of the web matches the rail surface almost exactly in unworn rail. Grind or torch about 1/4" from the inside (where they touch each other) of the flanges on the base rails. Leave matching tabs at each end and one in the center to prevent pulling when you weld. This leaves between 1/2" and 3/4" space so you can weld the flanges to the inverted rail. Weld the inverted flange to the rail cap as you've sketched. You'll need to stitch weld to control warping. Preheating is a MUST. Ping and relieve all welds immediately. Run a pass chip the slag then go a little nuts on it with the punch end of the chipping hammer to relieve stress as it cools. Once dimpled move on to the next stitch pass. Each stitch pass should be maybe 2" or so, I don't know if it's THE right length of bead per stitch but it worked very well for me. When I pulled it out of the perlite next day it was ruler straight and fritter flat. I preheated in a cut down 55gl. drum using a 20lb. bag of charcoal briquettes and a 450 f. Tempil stick because that's what the welding supply had. I welded it on a piece of plate on saw horses because I don't have a proper welding table. To keep the beads balanced to negate the pulling that warps things like this you need to be able to flip it over pretty often. Say every 3 beads. A great big crescent wrench or make a wrench makes it easier. Remember it's too hot to touch. We planned on a 12" face and two 8" horns. You make 8" horns by making the base rails 8" longer than the face, trim the webs and flanges back some on one end. Then you extend the "horn" out beyond the face, one horn on each end. They're not centered but what the hey, you can make them any shape you like. Forget adding ballast, the above described anvil weighed in at a bit over 210 lbs. The total length of rail was about 5' less trimmings plus about 15 lbs. of 7018. The following pic is prep work. The base rails aren't offset, I was grinding everything clean to weld. You can just make out the torched space in the base flanges. When in final position the flanges and webs in the base rails were trimmed back to allow clearance around the horns. The young man who I was making this one for got to grind the horns, welds, etc. to his liking. Looking at this pic I realize it isn't the offset horn design I describe above. He wanted one horn and forgot to watch the bandsaw when trimming the flange and web so his horn got bobbed. I welded it back on but . . . If you want a wider face plan it flipped over so the paired flanges are on top and leave the single rail long for your horn(s). So, yes I think it'll work. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 The rail IS high carbon steel so why add another plate on top. When you weld a plate on its edges it warps and causes a gap to form between the plate and rail which will cause it to loose any rebound it MIGHT have. I would just use the bottom of the rail as the face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Honestly, a 30” chunk on end, a foot or so nestled flange up in a stand, and versus other chunks ground, welded etc to make versus special tools would be my suggestion. Their have been sugjestions for cutting a piece of rail cap and grinding a horn and drilling and filing a hardy hole and welding this on to a vertical rail, but again I don’t see a huge return on the work and consumables used. TJWatts did use a rail flange to face an anvil (again a lot of consumables and time, but Cudd pressure control footed the bill) reaching under the angles sides to reach the middle and working his way out. Used two IBC totes on forklifts to quench the face after. So anything can be done, it’s just a mater off time, money and skill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I'm with CRS; much cheaper, faster to get a broken knuckle from a RR car if you have access to RR steel. Fork lift tine, etc. Spend the time it would take to build your idea mowing yards and you would be getting close to buying a decent new anvil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 IThere is a local foundry about 10 miles from me that melts scrap and casts forklift weights. I am going to get a pattern made and have them melt some rail road rails and cast them into an anvil for me. Im not sure about the finishing and heat treat but i will figure it out when the time comes. I figure this is the best way to make an anvil from a railroad track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I once talked to a lady who had a run of anvils made from the high nickel armour used on WWII warships. Not a great alloy for the purpose; but they sold them off in the 50's IIRC... If nothing else you can work harden RR alloy; but I'd try a heat/quench/temper. Perhaps using the services of your local VFD's high pressure hose...(IIRC Charles McRaven discusses re-heat treating an anvil he repaired in "Country Blacksmithing") Of course you only need to heat the face for a couple of inches to critical... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 It would make a great demo at the local fair and get the fire department to "extinguish" it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I would NOT try that in public till; I had done a number of them in Private! I was thinking more of at a VFD BBQ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I wouldnt do it in public for real. Man im not sure about really doing it in private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Call Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 Wow, thanks for all the information. So it sounds like I'm not completely crazy. It would be a lot more work than other means of getting an anvil, and it certainly isn't my first choice. But I have the rail, and I enjoy making the tools almost more than I enjoy using them. So this project isn't so much a means to an end as it would be for fun. That and anvils here seem to be going for ridiculously high prices. But with work and other commitments I won't be able to get to it until later in the summer anyways, so better oportunities may arise. Does any one know of any good scrap yards in the Kansas City area that may have big chunks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Have you seen this thread? Lots of interesting things that can be done with a chunk of rail without having to bother with welding. 4 minutes ago, John Call said: So this project isn't so much a means to an end as it would be for fun. Fun is a legitimate end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, John Call said: Kansas City area We won't remember this, that's why it is suggested to edit your profile to show your location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hammer Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Many of us here are all about doing things on the cheap. So I admire you for trying to use scrounged materials. Here's the but.......it seems like an awful lot of work and trouble to build something in the end that may not really be much better a piece of large scrap steel. I think you'd be time ahead and possibly money ahead buying and anvil that is on the lower end of quality. Find one with a broken horn but a good face for a couple hundred bucks and you'd be all set. The design you currently have won't have a horn, so look for an anvil with a good face. Believe me, I understand wanting to make it on the cheap as I make hammer handles rather than pay the $8 for a new one at the hardware store so I get it, but I'd never consider making an anvil because it is the centerpiece of your tools. The anvil and the forge are the two key tools to blacksmithing and I think worth investing some money in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanglediver Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 After I spent a U.S. Ton of time and effort into cutting and making a rail anvil shaped object, I put the remaining piece of stock to work as is. No preparation needed, just pound metal on it, works great for all my small jobs, very satisfying too. In fact, the tool I pound on most is my cheap, imported bench vise. It has a great polish job on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojo Pedro Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Frosty - just curious, how well did it work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 8 hours ago, Rojo. Pedro said: Frosty - just curious, how well did it work? The guy I did it for says he likes it but was griping about how much time it took to grind the horns. I did a little forging just because it was leaving my shop and it's heavy and rigid enough to make a fine anvil. Doing the horn thing isn't something I'd do but I hardly ever use the horn except as a bottom fuller so leaving a little rail cap extended is all I'd leave were I making one for myself. I'd also make a portable hole rather than try putting one in a rail anvil. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Call Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 On 5/23/2018 at 1:56 PM, JHCC said: Have you seen this thread? Lots of interesting things that can be done with a chunk of rail without having to bother with welding. I like the look of that! I'd seen track on end for anvils before, but I guess I hadn't thought through the obvious that the anvil really only needs to be under the hammer. And I really like the versatility of those ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Top tools can also be made buy either bending down fingers or grab a peice of c Chanel that fits the head and notch for the web. Weld on the top tool. Smaller top tools can also be fitted to the junction were the flange meets the web. The other option is to fit a track plate to a stump and use the holes for small hardy holes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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