Has anyone here actually broken an anvil?

[JHCC]

We see a lot of photos of anvils with the horn or the heel broken off, but I don't recall seeing any that show a fresh break. In other words, these all appear to be older wrought iron anvils that experienced a failure of one or more forge welds, rather than (A) older wrought iron anvils that have not broken, (B) cast iron/steel hybrid anvils (Fisher, Vulcan, etc), or (C)  newer cast steel anvils. It seems likely, therefore, that (for the most part) any anvil that was so flawed that it was going to break, already has broken. 

So, has anyone here actually broken any anvil other than a cast iron ASO?

[ThomasPowers]

I had a friend who broke one working on a cold morning without preheating the anvil, Took the heel off.  He had inherited it from his Father too so not a new one. Sandpile, Pan Handle of TX

Isn't your contention a bit like saying any old car that hasn't been in a wreck won't get into a wreck?  I've seen a bunch of anvils that look like they have seen very little use and so probably not undergone the stresses that might cause a failure.

Also I have a Vulcan where the horn broke off within the last 10 years; used in a Fine Arts Metals classroom and I was given the pieces for my abused anvil collection when I found a replacement for it; A retired Rancher at my Church donated a nearly mint Swedish cast steel anvil as a replacement.

[JHCC]

7 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Isn't your contention a bit like saying any old car that hasn't been in a wreck won't get into a wreck?

Not quite; more like "If the steering gear and brakes are faulty, the car will get in a wreck before it has a chance to get old." In other words, if there is a flaw in the weld or some other weak spot, hard use will find it out and the anvil will break. Conversely, if the anvil isn't broken, either (A) there is no such hidden flaw or (B) there is a hidden flaw, but the anvil hasn't been worked hard enough to cause it to fail.

To put it another way, it's like the old canard about how everything was so much better made in the past, whereas in reality, the things that weren't well made simply didn't survive.

[ThomasPowers]

It's Case B that I felt you were slighting,    The Vulcan broke around 2008 and was manufactured considerably before that.  It had terrible porosity right at the horn:body area but lasted for decades of abuse before a student gave it a coup de gras  (the face is worn through, almost a ridge back in places; amazing that with that much abuse the horn did not break off earlier!)

[SLAG]

JHCC,

Good point.

Here is another example of that phenomenon.

Historians, fairly recently discovered that the view that people were generally much shorter in recent past centuries, was mostly incorrect.

(!9'th. and part of the 18'th. century.)

They disabused themselves of that notion by analyzing skeletal measurements and also reading articles from the past.

Why did they make that error?

Simple. They noticed that clothes that survived from the past were shorter sizes.

Their subsequent assumption about people's stature was not correct.

The garments that survived were generally small and that is why they were not passed down to younger family members. (most were not that small).

They were stored away (for years), and often donated to museums or collectors, years later.

Regular sized clothing were used until they worn out, and discarded.

In other words, the tools that survived were generally better made or most inherent flaws had broken or poorer quality tools were not passed onto younger smiths.

SLAG.

[JHCC]

Another example: archaeologists in Britain observed that they had a lot of Roman potsherds and a lot of early medieval and later potsherds and therefore assumed for quite some time that the Saxons had little to no pottery. In fact, the Saxons had quite a lot of pottery, but it was of such low quality that it simply didn't survive.

[SLAG]

J.H.C.C.,

Touche Hose!  

(= tooshay Hosay")

Great information.

Thanks,

SLAG.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Before retirement, I had several officers that could break an anvil in a sand box with a rubber mallet.

[MC Hammer]

I have to wonder how many of the broken anvils were the results of improper usage.  Someone later on using the hardy or pritchel hole to drive in a piece of metal with a sledge or just plain using too big of a sledge hammer on either the heel or horn.  I recall seeing a rough equation of sledge hammer weight max vs. the weight of the anvil.  

In the vein of this thread I have to wonder if the smiths who fed their families with their anvils knew how better to treat their anvils than say people using them in a mechanic's shop in the 60's and 70's to pound cold metal on.  Probably like anything, there were those that took excellent care of their tools and those that didn't seeing their anvils as something that could be replaced if needed.  I guess I tend to fall on the side of the "Take care of your tools and they will take care of you" crowd.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Of course, also there is the never ending myth, that Union soldiers broke the horns off Confederate anvils during the ACW.

[JHCC]

Oh, please; let's not even go there.

[HammerMonkey]

I wonder if the trend to launch anvils into the sky with explosives was responsible for many of the sheared off horns and heels? 

[JHCC]

More likely what happened to them when they came back down!

[HammerMonkey]

Like when the skydiver was asked if he broke his leg jumping... and replied “no... landing”

[MC Hammer]

I just can't imagine signing my anvil up for it to be blasted in the air from gun powder   Me thinks they tied up the blacksmith and stole his anvil for this 

[ThomasPowers]

I asked my anvils if they would like to get blown into the air---they didn't say a word, just sat there looking at me.  (I backed away slowly....)

[Frosty]

That's what ASOs are for, Anvil Shooting Objects.

Frosty The Lucky.

[MC Hammer]

Thomas - I'm relieved.  If your anvils had carried on a conversation with you I think we'd all be concerned   Singing, yes, but talking no. Hmmm, gives me an idea for a new thread.

[JHCC]

Hear the tolling of the bells—
                 Iron bells!
What a world of solemn thought their monody compels!

[ThomasPowers]

Keeping time, time, time,

In a sort of Runic rhyme,

To the tintinabulation that so musically wells

From the bells, bells, bells, bells, Bells, bells, bells— From the jingling and the tinkling of the bells.

[jlpservicesinc]

I had gone this past fall to a place that had a bunch of anvils All bought new from Peterwright, Hay Budden..  Brand new when put into service. (1825 est). Most were special ordered to be a certain size or shape..  London patterns but just strange stuff like shorter lengths thicker, wider faces, etc, etc.. 

They did press Die making..   For different industries from cloth to leather, etc, etc..  

The majority of anvils they had showed signs of being used cold to form the high carbon ribbon into the die..  90% of the Hay Buddens they had left have welding repairs at the Hardie hole.. But the faces were perfect.. the horns on all the anvils were worn but the hay buddens fared better than the PW's..  and were worn flat about 3" and back from the tips with the PW's horn nearly worn back to a knub.. 

But the PW's had no welding repairs at the heels but the faces were worn more than the HB's.. 

I for years used my 175 HB to forge all the hardie tools in..   I wouldn't dream of doing that now with the thought of the heel breaking..  

I  have no problem at making tooling on the anvils hardie hole with a modern MFG anvil.. 

[George Geist]

On 5/15/2018 at 1:47 PM, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

Of course, also there is the never ending myth, that Union soldiers broke the horns off Confederate anvils during the ACW.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=Union+Army+destroying+Blacksmith+Shops

5,640 results in 0.56 seconds

Not sure why this forum has such a widespread belief that stuff doesn't get wrecked in war.

George

[JHCC]

There's a critical difference between destroying a shop and destroying an anvil. 

[TwistedCustoms]

Burning a smithy would most certainly ruin an anvil, much more so than breaking the horn. I know you can use a rock for an anvil but removing the rebound from a forged and hardened anvil counts as "destroying" in my book.

[ThomasPowers]

George, we know exactly HOW that story got started!   Paw Paw Wilson came up with this as a guess when he was asked why so many southern anvils were damaged and he postulated the war was responsible for damaging them---(which it was in a way since it was the extreme poverty during reconstruction that prevented southern smiths from replacing anvils as they got damaged. ) Soon his guess was being repeated all over as truth without any proof. 

As mentioned: burning the shop would be a heck of a lot more effective and as mentioned by Shakespeare: "War Without Fire is as Useless as Sausages Without Mustard”- Henry V...

Please let this urban legend die!