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I Forge Iron

The Blacksmith's Image


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Because it shows the ignorance and misinformation rampant in the general population.


This speaks more to frustration with that ignorance - not that the ignorance has any import.

It's blacksmithing - we're fundamental to nothing other than an aesthetic.

It's become an esoteric craft and we perform it as a luxury to society not a necessity. That folk don't have a dead-on handle on what it entails shouldn't be the basis for taking offense.

Add to that the fact that some people will argue with us about what it is that we do, just so they can hang on to their illusions


Let them argue - why participate? We know what we're doing and why - what makes other's perception of it so important?

No one can be knowledgeable in all areas, but we should all be willing to learn when corrected.


I've found most people are more than happy to come away with a newly corrected perspective.

Those that aren't - that's ok too - it's their choice.
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It's blacksmithing - we're fundamental to nothing other than an aesthetic.


While it may be true we're not a necessity in this day and age blacksmithing is fundamental to understanding history. History of metallurgy, as well as the history of how our ancestors lived just like so many other ancient skills.

That folk don't have a dead-on handle on what it entails shouldn't be the basis for taking offense.


They don't need to have a "dead-on handle" but they should have more of a clue about what we do and how the world works than they do.

We know what we're doing and why - what makes other's perception of it so important?


Because quite often "perception is reality". We see over and over (in other areas as well as in blacksmithing) that how people view things can be crucially important to the success or failure of an endeavor.
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Actually I'd say about 90% of the armour makers today are *NOT* blacksmiths; they do all their work cold and don't even have a method of heating metal in their shops, they don't know how to work hot metal! Check the forums over at ArmourArchive.org.

Now I point this out to all the young folks wanting to make armour; but I also mention that that last 10% include the very gods of modern armour making who both have the skills and tools for working hot and so can make jaw dropping armour, there's even one fellow who has made reproductions of Negroli pieces!

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I used to have trouble accepting the swords and horseshoes image. Then I brought a selection of my work to a demo (garden gate, sign hanger, a couple chisels and a door lock), strangely and noticeably, I never had one comment or question about swords or horsehoes.

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Actually I'd say about 90% of the armour makers today are *NOT* blacksmiths; they do all their work cold and don't even have a method of heating metal in their shops, they don't know how to work hot metal! Check the forums over at ArmourArchive.org.

Now I point this out to all the young folks wanting to make armour; but I also mention that that last 10% include the very gods of modern armour making who both have the skills and tools for working hot and so can make jaw dropping armour, there's even one fellow who has made reproductions of Negroli pieces!


All most all of the armor that I make is done hot. Why hit a piece of metal 50 times cold when you can do the same work in 10-15 hot. This is the way I look at it. My armor is not the best looking but it is hard as a rock. The last pair of legs that I made It took the guy 4 months of heavy fighting to get his first dent. Working armor cold is a pain. After a few pieces your hands hurt. Not so when done hot. Just my $.02 worth.
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MarkB, you think that bladesmiths led the revival of smithing; but have you looked at the makeup of the folks who started ABANA and so were at the forefront of the smithing revival? Not too many bladesmiths in that group. Also the books that got published at that time period did not emphasize blades over ornamental work. I think that if anything bladesmithing is more a spin off of the revival than vice versa. (Of course I have lured several stock removal blademakers over to the dark side myself)

The other thing is that we have a tendency to have a chip on our shoulders about horseshoeing, In cities and esp in Europe the two crafts tended to be quite seperate; however on the American Fronteir and in rural areas the smith was more a generalist and did pretty much everything. "To Forge Upset and Weld" put out by the PA Historical society has a couple of pages of a smiths "day-book" that mentions such theings as ironing a wagon, making chain and shoeing horses. Also as the smithing craft declined smiths became more and more generalists trying to keep body and sole together so the smith might also be the welder and local Model T repairman as well. Our preceptions are thus coloured by what we remember not what went on before. My great grandfather was the smith in a rural hill town in Arkansas in the 1900's and he shod horses as well as fixing farm equipment and doing whatever needed to be done.

If you look through the pictures of Blacksmith shops in Gil's calandars there are a whole lot of shoes lurking in the background on a bunch of them!

I generally tell folks that if you went to a German master smith and asked him to shoe your horse he'd throw a hammer at you! It's like asking your cardiologist to do a little proctology for you---different specialties. However in America it was often very different and differed from the city areas to the country ones too.

When asked I tell folks I do everything but horses: tools, camping gear, ornamental, kitchen, house hardware, blades, etc. As for horses: I am not interested in that part of the craft and well realize I don't have the skills necessary to do it well. As I tell folks; "Horses are bigger than I am and dumber than I am and that just too scary a combination for me to deal with!", (well some folks argure the dumber part...) As I'm into historical stuff I often have to make things I want for my kit as there are few Y1K stores around these days!

As for working the crowd, telling parents they're idiots in front of their kids doesn't work well I have found. I try for humour as laughter can often sneak a lesson past their preconceptions---when I hear that I am forging a horseshoe I will hold up the piece I am working on and say "Yup and it's a pretty funny looking horse too!".

I often bring a billet for pattern welding, one in progress and a finished piece too so I can talk about that with all the katanaphiles who are gobsmacked to find out the europeans were doing it before the japanese were!

And when they ask me to make a sword I tell them it will cost about 2 months of my salary and they get very quiet after I tell them what that is. We can then discuss why they would think that asking a master chef to cook a custom meal would be cheaper than eating at McDonalds. When they understand that some economics has filtered into them too.

Thomas

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The amusing (and ironic) thing is that this thread was started due to the "public" view of "balcksmithing". We, members of this community, cannot define what a blacksmith is amongst ourselves.

We work in metal, we make various useful and/or artistic items, each with its own use and value. The metal is worked hot and/or cold. Each "smith" has his or her specialities. All items are one of a kind, not mass-produced, even following the same pattern and/or using a jig.

Each of us is an individual, expressing ourselves through our work/craft/art. How each of us conveys this to the "public", or how the "public" views our profession/craft, is immaterial compared the view of that same "public" AFTER we have answered their questions, demonstrated our knowledge and skill, and given them something they did not have previously, our view and feelings.

I will now step off the soapbox as I can see a rail approaching quickly...;)

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Just out of curiosity, where and what was this person fighting? Did he wear these to the bar or something? (small bad joke there)


I build custo armor for people in the SCA. They fight with 1-1/4 in dia rattan cane. It is full contact armored combat. I have broken someones hand and have seen others brake both arms and legs doing it. :D Very fun game. Sorry for any inappropriate language.
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The armourer on a ship during Napoleonic times would also be expected to forge repair parts for guns. He would not be expected to make armour. Just like our National Guard Armouries don't have breastplates, spaulders, greves, etc; or forges! I was using the term armourer to refer to the earlier (and current) people who make armour. The earlier ones did a *LOT* of hot work as they were using real wrought iron.

As mentioned the modern ones tend to work cold---though it is fun to listen to them extoll the ease of working hot when they finally run into the forging crowd, often after years of abuse on their physical structure.

It is sort of a mental leap for them. I've run into a lot of them tell me that it's too expensive toolwise to set up a forge---then I tell them I have done it for under US$25 before---there's a sort of mental block that many seem to have---BTW I've been in the SCA for 30 years come this fall and we had the shire armoury in my garage back in 1979...I'm sure you've seen "The Best of the Hammer"---I used to get the newsletters and attended some of the conferences... I've also run into a lot of modern armour makers claiming that the original work was done cold---when practially every original artwork of an armoury shows a forge right in the middle of things. Those folks generally don't know anything about real wrought iron and it's love of causing problems when worked cold...

Now MooseRidge, I'd claim that as smiths we have a much better right to define what smithing is than any outsiders do! My basic take on blacksmithing is that it *HAS* to include some hot work. If it has no hot work it may be done by a blacksmith but it's not blacksmithing---Just like a blacksmith can plow a field but farming isn't blacksmithing.

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Now Thomas.... I didn't say that outsiders should define what we do, just that we appeared to be having problems definging ourselves.... LOL!

I agree that hot work is an integral part of blacksmithing, but I tend to include a lost on cold work and ornamentation after I have achieved the final shape.... Regardless of what people think of me (most of which is probably unprintable) I call myself a blacksmith....;)

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I'd have to say romance is the reason why he so persistently asked. Think about it, as many have said movies or video games have produced the idea of adventure in uncharted territories, given them a sense of purpose but nothing "real". Finding a blacksmith in real life has given him a glimmer of hope of connecting the two together, his chance of a romantic journey and escape from the "rat race" so to speak, but it's most unfortunate that the mojority of these people end up accidently stabbing themselves or others with this idea :-/. If he is really persistant in it tell him about ARMA get him to the right people and probably the right bladesmith for the job. So in a way you would create something without ever having to lift up your hammer.

-Cheers-
Bobby

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I'd say that if manipulation of crossection or form while hot was a large portion of your design then you are a blacksmith even if you do a lot of fab work on the finished project.

I may have to suggest we put up a big sign at the state fair saying "A Blacksmith is...." with all the things we do.

I think the problem is that Hollywood and video games are trying to define us in popular culture against our will!

Thomas

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On the advice you get from people who know nothing I can't resist adding my piece.

Here nobody will admit they don't know something. To do so would be to lose face. So a local blacksmith came out to look at my forge. The 280 pound Vaughan anvil is no use and won't work. The forge is wrong and I am using the wrong grade coal (it won't heat enough). So as a starter I put a piece of threaded bar with a siezed nut on it to heat up to free the nut. It was red within a couple of minutes. At this stage the Chinese smith took over. He destroyed the threaded end of the bar by leaving it in the fire too long and then chopped the nut up. For this he used my Vaughans hardy which he had previously told me (you guessed it) it won't cut!

It annoys me when people behave like that and set themselves up as experts and assume that I am little more than an idiot! We get this in all aspects of life here. My favourite was probably the hog roast where maybe a dozen Chinese told me what I was doing wrong. Remember the biggest piece of meat they ever cook here is about the size of a Zippo!

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Genaraly i agree with what thomas and metal mangeler said, a blacksmith in the old day's did both, and it does take some serious knowlegde of blacksmithing to be a good farrier, speciallty in the old day's when there weren't factory made shoe's around. These day's allot of "so called" farrieres only use factory shoes, and have never really forged a piece of iron in their lifes, those arn't worth the title of farrier in my opinion. I'm studying to be a farrier, its a 2 years course, and we are expected to learn how to make or own shoe's and how to forge allot of athor items we ourselfs as farriers or that or customer the horse owner might need.
but i must disagree with thomas, on some pionts, first here in belgium, in the old days all farriers where blacksmiths, because of most work they did was shoeing farm horses, so they didn't have anny work in winter (cause the horses would be let out without shoes), in in the winter they did verious blacksmithing work, they had to do ornamental work, both olso functional and tools.. a good farrier is also a good blacksmith, but not nesecarry visa versa... thats what my grandfather used to say..
and about the german master smith trowing his hammer if you would ask him to shoe a horse.. well that would depend on the region.. it might be the case if you would ask a smith in sollingen, but most defenedly not when asked one in more mountaines or rural area's.. and belive u me, those guy's are masters to, by all means!

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this thread makes me think of some advice i got from a metal artist i used to work construction with. (some of his stuff: Stone Metalworks :: Ornamental ironwork and wrought iron). he told me i would be sadly dissapointed if my idea of blacksmithing was standing half naked on a mountain with the wind in my hair while i hammered out a 5'X6'' dragon gutter. hehe.

a little off topic, but if you really wanna confuse/amuse someone when asking if they know where to get an anvil, tell them you've had a road runner problem lately, and need it to deal with them.

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Well put, blacksmiths were often on the "cutting edge" of technological change and many common items today were invented by smiths. So the smithy of olden times may be the most modern place around! Water driven tilt-hammers are over 1000 years old!

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I find it regretable that people get most of their knowlege of Blacksmithing from the same place they get most of their understanding of the world: Hollywood.


Fixed it for ya! :D

A little exercise people might find interesting:
Pick a topic which you know something about but most people do not. Smithing, light aircraft, submarines, hunting, the Battle of Gettysburg, growing parsnips, it doesn't really matter.
Look at how that subject is portrayed in the mainstream media: Hollywood, TV, newspapers etc.

Considering that most people don't actually research into obscure or semi-obscure subjects like those above, is it any wonder that peoples' perceptions of it are off? Only rarely are people who actualy know stuff about a depicted activity consulted, and even when they are they probablby have a very limited role in saying what goes on. Because TV and film are very visual media directors often put things in their productions that they shouldn't, like a smith taking a piece of iron from the fire, quenching it and then forge it.
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