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I Forge Iron

The Blacksmith's Image


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1 hour ago, Frosty said:

There's an excellent episode of a Discovery or History channel program called "The Last Knife Maker In Sheffield" that demonstrates the European tradition of blacksmithing.

Originally filmed in 1978 as one of a series by the Sheffield Polytechnic: 

 

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Mr. Craven is shown forging, hardening, and tempering the blades, which are then sent off to another shop for grinding and handling.

And here's a later film (from 1993) of a father-and-son grinding team:

 

And a cutler putting on handle and finish grinding a carving knife:

 

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I wonder how many decades it took- to both... develop that eye for an edge/adjustment... and to wear that (looks to be oak) hammer handle down to his hand shape?

I feel like I just watched several decades of history in a few minutes...:o

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7 hours ago, Frosty said:

I think it took a while to sink in that FIF is entertainment, not educational TV.

Still. I get pretty bothered when someone reaches out to me and goes like "man, look at what this guys are doing! It's crazy. It's awesome". I politely say that it's nice and try to show them some really beautiful video on the subject.

For those who come to me about knives, I share this one:

Really love it.

6 hours ago, JHCC said:

Originally filmed in 1978 as one of a series by the Sheffield Polytechnic:

This is gold. Pure gold.

6 hours ago, JHCC said:

And finally, a wonderful (if wordless) film of the finishing and assembly of scissors

Watched this about a month ago. "Wordless" is a good description. Made me a little emotional too.

This all is what I understand as the real beauty of the craft. Not what's sold on TV shows... 

Thanks for sharing all this, guys. Thanks a lot.

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Interesting; the use of molten sulfur aka brimstone to hold knife tangs is mentioned in "Divers Arts" a guide to studio crafts written about 1120 CE by the German Monk Theophilus.   (Available in English translation from the original Latin by C.S.Smith)

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I get asked about FIF while doing demonstrations too, I get all kinds of silly and often dumb questions. I try not to hold ignorance against a person provided they aren't to persistent in which case it's crossing the line into stupid. I can do something to cure ignorance and am unwilling to cure stupid. Prison just seems to unpleasant a price to pay for chlorinating the gene pool. Besides I figure they'll cure themselves eventually.

I keep it light, tell jokes and describe what and why I'm doing at the anvil. Entertained laughing people remember more and better. Defusing the occasional dumb butt is rarely hard enough I offer them the hammer. In about 25 years demoing a time or two a year I've never had anyone take the hammer. It's a polite for the audience way of saying, "Put up or shut up." 

Demoing at club meetings is different I expect the guys to give what I showed them a try, if nobody does I don't do that demo again. Often someone who says they'd do IT differently is right and I adopt their techniques in part or full. 

In truth there is a LOT to learn watching Forged In Fire, I recorded it last night's and watched it this morning. It's a variation on the original the contestants compete for a shot at competing against one of the judges. Three of the four are accomplished bladesmiths, one a two time FIF winner. I enjoy seeing some darned nice blades made but what I'm really doing is picking the winner in the beginning and watching for mistakes so I don't have t make them. There have been many occasions I say to myself what's he doing:blink:, that won't work, and been proven wrong. 

I learn something every time I watch. A negative example is often better than a positive one.

Frosty The Lucky.

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The  whole sword thing bugs me a little, but I would love to learn bladesmithing someday... I respect both arts equally, most people are uneducated about things like these. 

 

Now the whole "you should learn to shoe horse" thing, that bugs me probably like the topic creator. People don't understand the knowledge that farriers have.... I don't either but I know enough to know that I don't have the knowledge and haven't been around horses enough to even think about doing it.

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You can't let it bother you JW, everybody is uneducated about almost everything. Of course if someone insists on being a complete and total 4th. point of contact, please feel free to tell them to go away and leave you alone. Tell them Frosty said to. If they want to kick someone's butt, direct them to Meadow Lakes Alaska and to have at it. 

You have to be selective about who's opinion you take seriously. Sure, try and explain things to new folks but don't let it get to you. Know how many times I've had to explain how to tune a T burner for folk too lazy to read the directions? Sometimes it gets to me but I try not to respond at all if it does.

Another technique I just remembered was revealed to me by a smith I don't know when. I was told if a spectator was annoying swing your hammer harder every time they open their mouth. By time you're giving a good grunt every blow they usually get the point and go and it's time for a breather. ;)

Frosty The Lucky.

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When I get asked if I can shoe horses I say, "Sure, shoo horse, shoo." while making shooing motions with my hands.  Or, I will tell them that the only thing that I know about horses is that one end kicks and the other end bites.

"by hammer and hand all arts do stand."

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I know it's not really pertinent to the thread but I've forgotten to ask any former contestants when I've had the chance. I've noticed some folks on forged in fire working in what doesn't seem to be the most comfortable position. I wonder if they set the anvil height per the contestant's instructions or if it's one size fits all. I haven't seen an episode in over two years so I can't remember their anvil stands.

Pnut

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12 hours ago, George N. M. said:

When I get asked if I can shoe horses I say, "Sure, shoo horse, shoo."

Lol, been there, done that!

My pat answer lately tends to be

" I used to shoe them, now I shoo them".  :)

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When I started out I used to get real indignant if someone confused farrier work with blacksmithing work.  Then as I read up in the history of the craft and things like blacksmith's daybooks, (a listing of what a smith did and how much they charged for it day by day), I realized that in our frontier culture the smith would often be the local farrier as well.  In cities they may be different people but out in the country where you might only have one smith in the region; they did pretty much everything---except swords!

Now I would expect that Europe supported more specialization as  much of it is "thickly settled" and I have even visited smithies over there that did just agricultural tools or even one that just made large heavy rings for machine shops to work.

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I've thought about anvil height on FIF too and it appears they're all the same level. I'll pay closer attention tonight. IF the new spin off is on that is. 

I used to use the "only if the horse gets too close while I'm working" or variant in reply to the "do you shoe horses," question.  Now I explain farrier work is a specialization of the blacksmith's craft and if they're interested I can go into some detail. If they want more detail I point them to one of the farriers demoing. Same for bladesmithing, it's a specialization of the blacksmith's craft. 

I've never been offended when asked if I shoe horses, we owned horses for too many years and I admired the way a good farrier analyzed the way they moved, their hooves and could fit shoes to correct problems in a brief enough encounter too not disturb the horse overly. Horses are instinctively very protective of their feet, without the ability to run they're easy prey. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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I believe I heard a former contestant on FIF say that they are given choice of horn orientation, but didn't mention height. I also wonder if they use the same anvils or switch them out. Like say, one gets damaged do they replace just the one or all of them? Would be interesting to know

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The hand crank blowers are provided by one of the sponsors.  I THINK they're the same ones sold by Centaur forge, I don't know?

What I sincerely dislike about those "modern" blowers is the lousy gear ratio. My old Champ spins the fan, I believe, 48 times per turn on the crank, 48:1.  I don't think the modern ones spin 12:1. Could be wrong but what do you think would happen if you turned a Champion 400 as fast as they do on FIF?

If they didn't have short handles you wouldn't be able to spin them fast enough to do anything, notice how long they coast? Almost not at all?

Frosty The Lucky.

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I find that where i live it is about the "setting" as to which question  get asked the most. In more rural areas i get "so you make horseshoes ?" while in more urban areas i get " do you make knives?" I really do not like making knives first becuase i am not really good at it, but mostly becuase i want to mash hot metal and knives are way to much grinding and fiddly work for me. Horseshoes all i know is that they are basically semi circle things that go on horses feet, and are some times pitched at a piece of rebar stuck in the ground. 

After the last knife i made (yea, after sayin i do not like too, but hey money made is money made and i got 2 sold) the other day, on the what did you do in the shop thread, i got a lot more respect for those guys that compete on the FIF show. They do in 6 hours what took me a week. And i have heard that the pressure of being on set is tremendous. The one thing that really bothers me is when a lot of them are using the drill press. I was a machinist for a long time (now back to it) and watching them try and cut through a piece of steel with the drill spinning at 900,000 RPMs and screaming makes me cringe.  

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I had to stop saying anything about them drilling holes on FIF, Deb is tired of hearing it. I'm also surprised their insurance doesn't have someone on scene to prevent stupid dangerous behaviors, I can't count how many times contestants have drilled pin holes without clamping the blade down. 

At least they stopped sending me requests to apply to compete. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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