Anyone ever build a DIY blasting cabinet?

[eseemann]

Good Morning Folks,

I helped a co-worker set up his cabinet and it was kind of a pain because the directions were written by and for people that already knew how it want together. Looking at the thing I see the only few specialized things in the entire setup were the blaster device and the glove/glove rings that you used when reaching in to the box. I think this must be easier to say than do but it looks like you could build one out of plywood and plexiglass. You would need to use (I would think) an N95 or better mask since you could use any number of tubes of caulk and still not get plywood to seal like injection molded plastic. Anything that looks this straight forward must be a trap so I thought I would ask. 

If figure the cons (that I know of):

• Not as good seal, need to use with N95 or better mask in well vented place. My co-workers setup was for the most part sealed with a shop vac for dust control.
• Will leak sand, I have been told by people at White Sands NM and who were deployed to the middle east that the sand finds a way in or out.
• Need to fab the glove box so you don't end up taking off a few layers of skin.

[Michael Cochran]

I have seen a number of DIY solutions online and thought about making one myself. If I were to do it I'd use a metal drum on its side or get some thicker sheet steel and weld up the rectangular box myself. I have never used one so I don't know much about them other than what I've seen in videos or on tv but I do know it could be useful. I think you'd definitely want to hook up something to help pull the dust out of the air in the box. If you use a shop vac get the best filter setup you can for it to minimize particles blown into your air. A respirator could be a very good idea still. 

If you decide to do this please make sure to post pictures and a log of any major problems you have. 

[genesaika]

I really like the drum idea for this. I wonder how well a plastic or metal drum would hold up to the sand? Either way you would want a vacuum system attached to the bottom, say one of the holes in the top of the drum, that way the sand gets sucked away from your viewing area. It also needs some sort of rack to keep your parts on, because even with the best vacuum in the world sand will build up on the bottom. The clear viewing panel will be tricky, I imagine plexiglass will get torn up pretty fast, but you would just have to try it and see. As for the gloves, you should be able to get them from anywhere that sells blasting equipment.

Other things to note. Yes it will leak, I've used some of the top end blasting boxes and they leak, it's something to get use to. The sand isn't normal sand, it's specific for blasting. 

[eseemann]

That sand that people talk about in the Southwestern US and over in the Middle East is the almost talc fine sand that gets in everything.

I built a dust catcher for sanding down the walls after taking off the wall paper and that was a Homer Bucket 1/2 full of water and 2 hoses. Worked great since the dust or in this case sand would enter the bucket under water and when any made it all the way to the shop vac it was watery mud. Sand is most dangerous (as I understand it) to the lungs when floating in the air. I figure sand that has been underwater is not 1/2 as dangerous.

I am not worried about the steel, wood or plastic holding up since the sand is only going to be able to damage the sides of the box within 1-5 inches depending. 1/2 an inch away you can from the gun the sand will take off baked on enamel and and powder coat but only when you are at close to point blank range. The one he has looks like this.

[Michael Cochran]

5 hours ago, genesaika said:

I wonder how well a plastic or metal drum would hold up to the sand?

I wouldn't waste the time to build it out of plastic if I was to do it. I also believe, as Earnest points out, under normal use you shouldn't be directing enough of the blasting media at the walls to make too much of a problem. 

5 hours ago, genesaika said:

The clear viewing panel will be tricky, I imagine plexiglass will get torn up pretty fast ...

You might could prolong the life of the viewing area by using Pyrex glass. I don't know how abrasion resistant it is but I know it is some very durable stuff. 

 

5 hours ago, eseemann said:

That sand that people talk about in the Southwestern US and over in the Middle East is the almost talc fine sand that gets in everything.

I cannot vouch for the southwestern US but I know the "sand" I saw in Iraq and Kuwait was very powder like. It was pervasive but it was manageable for the most part. 

[Farmall]

If you build the viewing panel the same size of a production model, you could get the replaceable sheets that most of the manufacturers sell to prolong the life of their viewing panel. 

[Glenn]

You are limited to the size item you can get through the door and get turned around inside the cabinet. 

Depending on how much you use the cabinet, the back wall, shelf, and viewing glass are consumables. Be sure you can get the type sand or blast media you need for the item you want to sand blast. Some nozzles are media specific. The sand, blast media, and nozzle tips are consumables also.

 

[eseemann]

Thanks Glenn, good info.

 

[eseemann]

50 minutes ago, Michael Cochran said:

I cannot vouch for the southwestern US but I know the "sand" I saw in Iraq and Kuwait was very powder like. It was pervasive but it was manageable for the most part. 

From what I have been told "manageable" was the key. The people I worked with that go down to White Sands Missie Range (WSMR) say you need to keep an eye on it and make sure the stuff does not get in to consumer grade items like the Dell laptops everyone+dog is issued. 

[Frosty]

Yeah. Build it from ply wood and line it with rubber or linoleum. Rubber gaskets on the doors. Multiple screens on the sand return are a good idea. Buy peal offs for the windows or you end up replacing them too often. We used to get them at the motor cycle shop in the dirt bike section and you can find similar in hardware/welding stores to protect welding and face shields.

Frosty The Lucky.

[genesaika]

I can also say from experience that the sand at White sands gets into everything. I lived on the AFB there for a few years and it was bad. Great fun to go play in the sand, but man you will be finding sand in the craziest places for a month.

[eseemann]

Thanks Frosty.

Genesaika, I have been told that you end up picking sand out of you ears and anything that has the slightest bit of moisture (forget about lip balm) after that. My Sister in Law was deployed 2 times and both times she said the sand gets everywhere.

 

[genesaika]

Have you ever hugged someone with one of those glittery shirts and found glitter on you for a week? It's like that only 100x worse. It will be in your car and house and shoes, ears, mouth, eyes, any crevice, and your unmentionables for a month or forever.

Edit: Let me put it this way. A few years ago I found some article of clothing, I can't recall what it was, from that time in my life... It still had sand in it. Mind you this was 10+ years after I had been there and countless washes too.

[eseemann]

Funny story about that. The People that made Stranger Things did not know that people did not use real 11 year old kids to play 11 year old parts. One reason as follows:
This was from an interview talking about the actress that played Number 11

One day she showed up on set and she's just covered head to toe in glitter. And she's like "I don't know where this glitter came from."
And it's like I'm not having this problem with any of my adult actors covered in glitter.
It's very - I don't know if you've tried to get glitter off someone, but it's very difficult. And yeah, so we fell behind.
So she's still a child.

[51 Papy]

I built mine out of OSB to sand blast an old truck.  Everyone should do a body off restoration/resto-Rod ONCE!  The top was removable and the view window was an old storm door glass.  Lined with an old horse trailer mat.  Sand dumped out the bottom back into a bucket.  I used a HF dust collector and that worked well.  Both are still in action. Son-in-law enjoys working on cars and made a home for that blast cabinet.

 WARNING!!

Please use any media EXCEPT sand!  Sand contains silica.  When sand fractures durning blasting the silica becomes airborn and will cause silicosis of the lungs.  Lots of law suits in my business.  I used coal slag, its sharper than our local river sand and reusable if you recover and screen.  The dust is cut down dramatically.  600 lbs did the whole truck.  This is a real health issue.  There is nothing anyone can do once you breath it in and your lungs can not clear it out.

 

Sorry about the soap box!

Papy

[genesaika]

As my current job is flooring installer, I can also attest to the dangers of silica. If you do use actual sand, mind you only the type made for sand blasting, make sure to use a respirator. I do not mean on of those silly useless paper things you can get for $5, no a real respirator. Those paper ones do absolutely nothing to stop silica, or anything else, they are only good to appease a safety manager. I can't tell you how many times I've used those paper things and ended up with a nose full of mortar or patch or grout. Spend the extra money and get a respirator, because your health is worth a whole lot more than whatever it costs to protect it.

[eseemann]

I agree 100% with both 51 Pappy and Genesaika. The problem with small particles of sand is the land in the lung and start to worry (for lack of a better word) the tissue. After a while these particles cause (and this is best case) scar tissue that can cause (among other things) the same COPD you get from being a life time smoker. The not best case (and this is REALLY complicated stuff so any medical professionals out there please be kind) can cause an ongoing immune response that over time can (for lack of a better word) wear out the tumor suppressor genes that keep the genes that rebuild cells from running out of control. This is the reference I was looking for https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/genetics/genes-and-cancer/oncogenes-tumor-suppressor-genes.html

 

This is one of the mechanics of how it might happen. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1994795/

Cancer and inflammation

An association between the development of cancer and inflammation has long-been appreciated [4,5]. The inflammatory response orchestrates host defenses to microbial infection and mediates tissue repair and regeneration, which may occur due to infectious or non-infectious tissue damage. Epidemiological evidence points to a connection between inflammation and a predisposition for the development of cancer, i.e. long-term inflammation leads to the development of dysplasia.

https://academic.oup.com/occmed/article/59/2/89/1386756
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/substances/crystalline-silica
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.3322/caac.21214/full
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/97-118/default.html

One last bit, about filters. I need to ask Genesaika about what you said in reference to paper filters because I plan to get my self a real respirator but I have been using the N95 filter masks. I have had good results so far with the 3M N95 filter masks and I wanted to ask what you thought of these. I know the "dust mask" that are for "nuisance particles" are almost one step better than wrapping a bandanna around your nose and mouth but what do you think of something like these.  https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Particulate-Respirator-8210V-N95-80-EA-Case?N=5002385+8720539+3294752926&rt=rud

or these https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Particulate-Respirator-07048-N95-20-EA-Case?N=5002385+8720539+3294776360&rt=rud?

I like the idea of using water when I can to reduce dust and did something like this when sanding down drywall.

 

 

 

 

[genesaika]

The major problem with any of the paper masks is they don't make a good seal, this allowing the particles to pass through unhindered. Those masks you linked, I have used and they suffer the same problem. 

Yes water is a good way to keep down dust, but not very effective with a blasting cabinet. Unless you have it misting the whole box while in use.

[51 Papy]

Moisture really messes up the blasting system.  If you are going to recover the media it has to be dry.  Got some water from compressor into the tank it took a while to get it cleaned out and dry.  Water is great for cutting block and concrete. OSHA said they would start silica fines this month.  I have not heard of any fines but my customers are taking it very seriously. 

 

The only way to use sand for blasting is to have a fresh air suit on.  It's just not worth it.  Coal Slag is about three times the price of sand but can be recovered and reused many times.  Our local sand is dust after the second use.  I'm watching my grandkids grow up now I really want to be around to see more!

[Glenn]

When you sand blast an item, and use the proper protective gear, you are NOT out of danger. You still have to deal with the contamination of what was removed from the item. It has now been reduced to small pieces, debris, or dust and has contaminated the entire batch of blast media. It has also contaminated the entire area around the work space by the dust settling on everything, only to become air borne again when disturbed, or by someone walking past, or other air currents.  This is still the case when you use blast media such as water, CO2 (dry ice), or lasers.  How are you going to properly dispose of the contaminated blast media? 

[JHCC]

Good point, @Glenn. Especially relevant when blasting something covered in lead paint: finer particles increase solubility.

[51 Papy]

Good question Glenn. "Not the way I did it" would be my answer.  Most of my contamination was rust.  

[eseemann]

I did not figure on using water in the cabinet but I for my airborne dust collector. Now a DIY water cutter is an entirely different idea. Most DIY ideas I get rolling around in my head fall under rule #87. If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it. Found on Skippy’s List: The 213 things Skippy is no longer allowed to do in the U.S. Army. Google this if you have never read it before. I have Army Majors that have sent this list out to their people for review.

The dust collection idea is basically my ripping off the Rainbow Vacuum. Run the air with dust through water before it gets to the shop vac. That having been said I would still use a mask and keep the fan on to blow dust out of the garage. 

23 hours ago, genesaika said:

The major problem with any of the paper masks is they don't make a good seal, this allowing the particles to pass through unhindered. Those masks you linked, I have used and they suffer the same problem. 

Yes water is a good way to keep down dust, but not very effective with a blasting cabinet. Unless you have it misting the whole box while in use.

Can you let me know what respirator you would use? I need to get one that will also take filters for when I am welding or cutting just in case I run across any zinc. I don't see my self welding any galvanized but I am willing to bet none of the people bitten by snakes or stung by wasps, hornets or bees in 2017 got up that morning and had "go get bitten/stung" on their "to-do" list for that day.

On that same note, I see a large number of people welding nuts to things as part of a fab project. Unless I am wrong the normal grade (not 5 or 8) are zinc plated. Would I be correct that welding a normal zinc plated nut is the same type of danger as welding galvanized just to a lesser degree? 

 

[genesaika]

I use this one by 3m that I got from home Depot.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Pro-Medium-Multi-Purpose-Respirator-with-Quick-Latch-65023QLHA1-C/206408988

You can get different cartridges for whatever you might need. Only thing I have noticed is that my local store doesn't care anything but n95 .

[eseemann]

Thanks for the info.