Anthricyte vs Bituminous Coal

[archiphile]

I am new to the forum, I have been a certified professional welder for the past ten years, but my smithing knowledge is religated to heating square stock with an O/A rig and twisting it.

My question is this, what would happen if I used Anthricyte Coal in place of Bit. Would this work for use in the forging process. My project is to manufacture some mortise chisels of various sizes. Would this type of coal leave any pit marks or any other impurities that I am not aware of? Any help would be greatfully received.

Thanks,

Archiphile

[Ice Czar]

Anthracite has the highest carbon content and the fewest impurities of all the coals. For the most part its the oxygen that does the pitting. You have to work or brush the oxide off whatever it is your fuel is.

Classification and Rank of Coal . University of Kentucky
Coal
Anthracite
Bituminous coal

image copyright Kentucky Geological Society University of Kentucky, employed under the fair use provisions of the copyright law, for education purposes

[unkle spike]

I actually use Anthracite in my forge, the neighbors have an unused coal shed about half full of it, so I get it free. It is pretty sulfurous, but can be used. I don't get any more scale then I have seen with other coals.

[ThomasPowers]

in general it is harder to use: harder to light and generally requires a pretty constant air supply to keep it lit. It doesn't coke up and so you don't get the cave fires you can do with Bituminous.

It wouldn't be my fuel of choice to learn on and I would suggest real chunk charcoal over it if you are new to forging.

[steveh]

i use a hand crank blower and had a hard time keeping a good fire going with anthracite ,its like night and day between the two.

[pete46]

Does One Have A Different Look Than The Other?

[Glenn]

BP0131 Coal, Coke, and Rocks

BP0051 Good Coal

[unkle spike]

I have seen "top and bottom seam coal" it leaves a big coating of slag on the metal being heated. I suspect this is due to the silica in it depositing on the metal as the flame melts it and it rises.

As I said I use Anthricite, because I get it free. It heats to weld heat, it does coke off fairly quickly. BUT it is dirty, I have to get the clinker out probably 3 or 4 times in an afternoon of forging. The clinkers are flat, round dishes probably around 3/4 of an inch thick and as big around as the firepot I use. Starting a "green" fire with new coal (no leftover coke) is a smoky affair and is somewhat hard to light. Also I don't get the cave effect which works the best for depleting oxygen from the flame. My coal does have a good bit of fines in it, and I usually let my coal cart sit outside uncovered so the rain keeps it moist, no standing water, just damp in the shade most of the time.
I have a large squirrel cage fan, that brings a great volume of outside air into my shop, so I get plenty of fresh air, and there are enough air gaps in doors and windows to keep the smoke down to bearable. I do however turn the forge fan on low sometimes and take a break outside if I have to add a good bit of green coal to the fire to rebuild it. I don't know the cfm of my shop ventilating fan, but two fans the size of the average furnace fan mounted with a motor in the center. It is in the adjoining shed so the air is cool usually.

Sorry to kind of ramble there....

Summary, Good coal or coke makes the best fire, but you can adapt to anything that will produce enough heat. Maybe next time I forge I will take a picture of a "clinker pie" so you can see what I am talking about. I have used good Pocahontas 3 and it is a great deal easier to manage a fire.

Glenn, correct me if I am wrong. Is the "shine" on anthricite due to the high silica? This is what gets gooey at first, then as it cools becomes the clinker? Also I get a lot of these, about the size of 8 shot surrounding my fire after a while, they fly out with the flame.

[habu68]

The Anthracite from the powder river formation in Wyoming passes though town on the way to the local power plants. The bucket full that found its way to my forge was returned due to high sulfur and the smoke altering the breeding cycle of the West Nile Mosquito. The coal was returned at great risk to its rightful owner. This anthracite looks like a glassy obsidian or hard roofing tar. ymmv

[archiphile]

So, sounds like I could use it but it is not preffered due to smoke starts, and lots of clinkers and no coke. It also appears that I could just as easily use Hardwood charcoal and get better results for less aggravation. I will let you all know how things turn-out.

Thank you to all who have replied

Best,

Archiphile

[MooseRidge]

The only time I use Anthracite is forge welding. I use local Bituminous (med ash, med sulfur, high BTU) that I used to get for free. I coke up a large supply at the end of each session so I have plenty to start the next one....

Once this batch runs out, I'll have to make some other arrangements....

[ThomasPowers]

Using real chunk charcoal you need a deep firepot and a lot less air flow than coal. Of course it is what was used the first 1000 years or so of the iron age and the viking swords were forge welded up in it as are traditionally made japanese swords to this day.

It throws off more heat on the smith and can throw sparcks especially if it's damp. Sifting out fines helps cut down on sparks too!

[John B]

I have used anthracite, but didn't particularly like it and it was expensive in relation to other coals/cokes, it also affected my chest when using it. I was led to believe it was more toxic than other coals, and so do not use it any more.

Basically you can use any method of heating metal that will raise it to the required forging temperature, some take longer than others and some will get better heats than others, try various and settle on what works for you.

[hammerkid]

I have seen "top and bottom seam coal" it leaves a big coating of slag on the metal being heated. I suspect this is due to the silica in it depositing on the metal as the flame melts it and it rises.

As I said I use Anthricite, because I get it free. It heats to weld heat, it does coke off fairly quickly. BUT it is dirty, I have to get the clinker out probably 3 or 4 times in an afternoon of forging. The clinkers are flat, round dishes probably around 3/4 of an inch thick and as big around as the firepot I use. Starting a "green" fire with new coal (no leftover coke) is a smoky affair and is somewhat hard to light. Also I don't get the cave effect which works the best for depleting oxygen from the flame. My coal does have a good bit of fines in it, and I usually let my coal cart sit outside uncovered so the rain keeps it moist, no standing water, just damp in the shade most of the time.
I have a large squirrel cage fan, that brings a great volume of outside air into my shop, so I get plenty of fresh air, and there are enough air gaps in doors and windows to keep the smoke down to bearable. I do however turn the forge fan on low sometimes and take a break outside if I have to add a good bit of green coal to the fire to rebuild it. I don't know the cfm of my shop ventilating fan, but two fans the size of the average furnace fan mounted with a motor in the center. It is in the adjoining shed so the air is cool usually.

Sorry to kind of ramble there....

Summary, Good coal or coke makes the best fire, but you can adapt to anything that will produce enough heat. Maybe next time I forge I will take a picture of a "clinker pie" so you can see what I am talking about. I have used good Pocahontas 3 and it is a great deal easier to manage a fire.

Glenn, correct me if I am wrong. Is the "shine" on anthricite due to the high silica? This is what gets gooey at first, then as it cools becomes the clinker? Also I get a lot of these, about the size of 8 shot surrounding my fire after a while, they fly out with the flame.

HEY JEFF GOOD buddy!!!! So my coal is anthricite cause its shiny Jeff?

[unkle spike]

There are a couple of pictures posted in the thread, they are great for identiying what you have Chris. That coal you had that slagged up was anthricite, with a good bit of impurity in it.

[hammerkid]

Alright Thanks Jeff. Hey jeff you going to the meeting tommorow?

Thanks,Chris

[Ten Hammers]

The local Amish sell anthricite to burn in stoves. I tried a bag for grins. Won't waste my time again. It may heat fine but no use to me for forging.

[john_zxz]

I use anthracite for forging and forge welding since 2 years. I love it! Its a little bit difficult to light and maintain but it works great when you got the twist. I dont know how you guys get a lot of smoke with it....mine does absolutely no smoke at all. Charcoal does more smoke than my anthracite. Maybe its the quality you use. The anthracite must not have brown color or grey...all black.

It is cheaper for me than any other fuel because they sell it at my hardware store near my home. There is a little bit clinkers, I have to clean my fire 1 or 2 times in an afternoon. I light anthracite with 2 handfulls of hardwood charcoal. The air supply I use is a #400 champion blower. It works fine, but if I have some filing to do, I must crank some turns to maintain the fire.

I use nut size anthracite beacause I can't find pea size, but I break them to pea size by hand. But it works too if it is nut size...It's just little more difficult to light and maintain.

For the ones who wants to try it, use a deep and heavy duty firepot. Mine is the "extra heavy duty coke firebowl" from centaur forge and it works just fine for it.

John_zXz