First Ever Attempt/Tips for improvement

[Irzy]

Hi everyone!

I just started smithing literally days ago.  Never hammered on steel or knew anything about it.  Being obsessed with the show Forged in Fire I set out to build a propane forge and start practicing. 

This morning I lit the forge and placed in a piece of 3/4" round (no idea of the grade but it does weld easily???).  Took me about 4hrs but I got a rough knife shaped object out of it. I kind of let steel do what it wanted too until a shape appeared.  I found it fairly difficult to move the steel and make a flat from the round bar.  Any suggestions to help improve? Maybe ways or places to strike that you have found to draw material out more easily (width I was able to figure out but lengthing was almost impossible).

Many thanks and I hope to participate in this forum more often as I grow as a Smith.

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Can we see the hammer you are using?

If it welds easily---(I assume you mean arc or gas welding and not forge welding)----then it's probably not an alloy good for making blades.  One method of testing is to hammer out the end and then heat to non-magnetic and then quench in water. If it breaks in the quench or is easy to break in the vise afterwards it probably will make a knife.

One trick is that you have probably noticed that as you hammer out the edge bevel that the blade curves away from the edge side.  You can get a good heat on the blade and put it spine down on the anvil and tap it on the edge till it straightens out---you can use a chunk of firewood as the "hammer" if you wish.  I generally use my hammer.

Now moving metal is greatly dependent on a stable anvil (larger the better), a large hammer, the correct temperature and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!

Unfortunately good knife making alloys are usually much harder under the hammer than mild steel alloys.  I often suggest to new smiths they take an automotive coil spring and cut it down one or 2 diametrically opposite sides to get a bunch of ( pieces that they then experiment on and learn the details of how to forge and heat treat *that* steel, (generally 5160)

If you are in the USA you should be able to find a semi-local Blacksmithing group; one Saturday afternoon with someone that knows what they are doing should save you at least 6 months of trying to learn it from the web or books. (Speaking of which "The Complete Bladesmith", James Hrisoulas is recommended...)

[Buzzkill]

Welcome to the forum Irzy.  You jumped into the deep end of the pool rather than wading around a bit.  I understand your enthusiasm, but you could definitely benefit from slowing down a little bit and doing some reading on here.  If you are dead set on making knives right away you should spend some time in the knife making classes section of the forum.

Beyond that, you most likely made a knife-shaped object (KSO) rather than an actual knife.  Unless you happened to grab a piece of steel with about 60 points of carbon or more it will probably not hold an edge very well at all.  Even if you did work on a hardenable piece of steel, unless you know what alloy you are working with it will be hit or miss with the heat treatment unless you do some tests for mystery steel to determine what works best for it.

As for moving the metal, I've never really subscribed to the "let the metal do what it wants" mindset.  I understand it a little, but the point of blacksmithing is to make the metal do what you want it to do.  That means you have to learn what happens when you hit it and then plan accordingly.  Modeling clay can give you a fairly good idea of what will happen to steel in its hot plastic form.  You can "stretch" the steel in a given direction by the use of different types of peen hammers and/or fullers for instance.

I commend you on getting a general knife shape on your first try though.  Chances are you are now a steel smashing addict.  We're the support group

It's hard to tell because of the bright sunlight, but I'm not sure your forge is quite as hot as it should be, and if you haven't at least rigidized that ceramic blanket you should do so to avoid breathing microscopic particles that will eventually cause you breathing problems.  Another thing to consider is if you plan on working material longer than your forge you may want to put a pass-through opening in the rear for those pieces.  You can always cover it with fire brick when it's not needed.

In short, grab a comfy chair, something cold to drink, a few snacks, and spend some time reading through the topics that interest you the most.  There is an amazing amount of good information on this forum, but you have to do some digging to find what you want.  The search function on here is not ideal, so many times it's easier and better to add "iforgeiron.com" (without the quotes) to your desired search term in the web search engine of your choice to have a good chance of finding what you're looking for.  Good luck, thanks for the pics, and we look forward to seeing your progress.

[Latticino]

Welcome to the forum.

I recommend that you work on learning basic forging skills before attempting bladesmithing, but many of us can't seem to hold back from jumping right in.  If you can hold off long enough to learn to make good tapers, you will be well on the way to effective bladesmithing. Alex Steel has a good video on making tapers.

Note that a lesson or two from a good bladesmith will accelerate your learning curve appreciably.  The ABS has a basic bladesmithing class that runs 2 weeks and should help you along.

It is actually easier to draw out the length of a blade than the width, so if you have the latter mastered, you are well on the way to success.  There are a number of different tricks for manipulating the metal in the direction you want it to go, but these depend on your tooling.  In your particular case the type of hammer you are using.  If all you have is a flat or rounded peen, you can use the round crossection horn to draw the material longer by laying the stock over the horn at a perpendicular to its axis and hitting the stock with your hammer.  There are a number of other tricks, including use of the anvil edges or a straight or diagonal peen hammer, but it all depends on what you have to work with and your experience.

Seriously, learning how to make good tapers and basic forged leaves will teach you around 75% of what you need to know for knife forging.  Of course that is only a small part of good knife making.  Grinding and heat treatment, IMHO, are far more critical, but lots less fun...

[Irzy]

10 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Can we see the hammer you are using?

I used a 3lbs Estwing as it was the only one I had in my garage that would somewhat work.

[ThomasPowers]

I think you will be much happier one the face is dressed properly for forging.

[Irzy]

10 minutes ago, Latticino said:

Alex Steel has a good video on making tapers.

 

Thanks for the info.  I watch Alec Steele videos daily.  I was going to start on the leaf but don't have any of the fullers required to add in the details.  Excitment got a hold of me and I just wanted something tangible at the end of the day.

[JHCC]

Some of Alec Steele's videos are really good, although personally I think he's veered more in the direction of entertainment rather than education of late. I would also recommend the "Blacksmithing Basics" series from Andy Mckenzie (our very own @Everything Mac).

[ThomasPowers]

Making the tools you needed doesn't count as tangible? When I drop my tools my feet hurt!

[JHCC]

Lisa: "What are you working on, honey?"

Me: "I'm making a tool to make a tool to make a...wait, what AM I making?"

[Daswulf]

No real fullers needed to make a leaf. You could easily make a leaf veining chisel and you are good to get started. As Thomas mentioned... You will end up with more tools  that's always a good thing. Unless you are dropping them on your feet. If I drop a tool I get out of its way. 

[D.IVO]

Leveling the height of your anvil with the waist will improve hammer control greatly also  you should bolt the anvil to the stump because it's rocking making things harder to control.

Alec Steele has some good videos on hammer control but lately I cant bother watch his videos anymore, nothing really interesting and new to learn and his excessive enthusiasm is tiring.

Mr Walter Sorrels has a ton of videos about knife making and who helped me get started.

 

[Irzy]

1 minute ago, D.IVO said:

Leveling the height of your anvil with the waist will improve hammer control greatly

Mr Walter Sorrels has a ton of videos about knife making and who helped me get started.

 

Thanks!! And I will check out those videos

[the iron dwarf]

there are good vids by Joey van de steeg / technicus joe on many things including making tongs, you can find him here or on facebook and on youtube.

 

drawing out square is easiest, make your round square, keep turning it to the next side and it will quickly get longer then if you want it round or flat make it so.

the first part of the beginners courses at my place after lighting the fire and talking about parts of an anvil to use, hammers, fire management ( we use coke or coal ) is to draw out a long taper on 12mm ( 1/2" ) square.

whilst doing this we can see if your stance is wrong, how you are holding the hammer and how much control you have of it, we are aiming for a taper of over 3" long with smooth straight sides and a sharp point but we dont often get them but correcting what you were doing wrong is more important.

then we go on to making things

an S hook

a curly key ring

bottle opener

each one of which introduces more things to learn and then finally a toasting fork with a leaf on the handle, a water twist and 2 tines split with a hot cut, rounded and drawn out

[Tzelik Hammar]

8 hours ago, JHCC said:

"I'm making a tool to make a tool to make a...wait, what AM I making?"

How smithing REALLY works...

[Work With Nature]

Wow nice forge and knife.