Question about upgrading the face of my cheap anvil.

[4xdblack]

I recently bought the harbor freight 55lb cast iron anvil, and I already know how low quality it is. So I'm thinking about going down to my barn and finding a nice flat piece of steel to weld (and by weld I mean JB-weld) over the face. Thing is, I've gone through the barn multiple times looking for a nice anvil substitute without any luck. What I know I do have is a slingblade which I'm sure has a nice strong hardened steel blade on it, just large enough that if I cut it with my angle grinder it'll cover the face of my harbor freight anvil.

The question that I've got in my mind right now is: Will a blade be too thin to work as the face for my anvil? Should I keep searching for something thicker? Or will the blade work just fine?

Another thing that comes to mind is I've got a piece of H-beam that my neighbor gave me, if I cut a piece off and ground it flat, would the steel be strong enough to work as the face for my anvil?

 

It doesn't have to last me forever... But I want to make sure I have something that will last me until I can get my hands on a decent anvil to work on

Thanks for the help!.

[Lionel h]

Jb weld will have the effect of bubble gum to your anvil . It's not rigid and won't stand up to a repeated beating, it will make things worse . 

[4xdblack]

Is there anything else I can use then? Or will I just have to suffer through with a cast iron anvil?

[JHCC]

1 hour ago, 4xdblack said:

The question that I've got in my mind right now is: Will a blade be too thin to work as the face for my anvil?

Yes.

1 hour ago, 4xdblack said:

Should I keep searching for something thicker?

Yes. Not as an addition to your ASO (Anvil-Shaped Object), but as its replacement.

1 hour ago, 4xdblack said:

Or will the blade work just fine?

No.

1 hour ago, 4xdblack said:

Another thing that comes to mind is I've got a piece of H-beam that my neighbor gave me, if I cut a piece off and ground it flat, would the steel be strong enough to work as the face for my anvil?

No. It's too soft, and won't have enough mass below the hammer blow.

19 minutes ago, 4xdblack said:

Is there anything else I can use then?

What you're asking is essentially the same as: My house is falling apart, the beams are rotten, the foundation is sagging, and you can't walk across the living room without the floor sinking three inches. What kind of siding will fix these problems?

22 minutes ago, 4xdblack said:

Or will I just have to suffer through with a cast iron anvil?

No. What you need to do is find something that will work, and don't just look in your barn. A piece of railroad track or heavy truck axle stood on end. A chunk of forklift tine. A block of mild steel. The knuckle from a rail car coupling. There are all kinds of things that will work. You just need to be creative and keep an open mind. 

There have been a number of really good threads here on IFI about improvised and non-standard anvils. Please go read those; they will give you good guidance.

[Glenn]

You have an ASO (Anvil-Shaped Object) now, so use it while you look for a better anvil (something to hit things on).

Many of your questions have been answered and discussed already on the site. They will give you lots of great ideas and solve many problems. 

[JHCC]

IFI member Daswulf had a great post about using a chunk of granite as an anvil.

[Daswulf]

4xd, you can find about anything you need cheap or free to get working with a bit of knowledge. I'll suggest doing a good bit of researching here and the possibilities will open up like you wouldn't imagine. Getting started, many of us start out with the notion that we Need "The" tools that we typically see used. There are many ways to improvise what is around us or close by to get working until the "nicer" tools are obtainable. 

As far as the ASO goes, you can use it for its horn and make hardy tools to use with it. You already have it so use it.

  If you want a good hard working surface then there are many things better then cast iron, some mentioned above. For the granite, go to a place that does headstones and ask them if they can help you out with a chunk that may have been a mess, reject or cutoff.

 Even better, Check out scrapyards or fabrication shops and talk with them or look around if they will let you. You can find large chunks of steel that could make a good anvil. 

Remember,The Best Tool is knowledge. Think outside the box with that and possibilities open up. 

[JHCC]

38 minutes ago, Daswulf said:

Remember,The Best Tool is knowledge. Think outside the box with that and possibilities open up. 

Or to quote IFI's founder Glenn, if you don't build the box, you don't have to think outside it.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Return the ASO, and go looking for a piece of steel. Rental yards, heavy equipment repair shops, tractor repair shops, equipment manufacturers, mines, big industrial companies, etc all have repairs to do and pieces that they told that you can use as an anvil. 

Old forklift forks, big axles, hydraulic breaker points, bucket pins, thick plates of steel, large hydraulic shafts, and many more items provide enough mass and a big enough working surface to use for an anvil. Remember, you only need a working surface as big as the hammer face.

[4xdblack]

My goal here is that I needed to have an ASO by this Saturday. I was going to make one out of what I think is a piece of railroad track, but due to circumstances I wont be able to get that job finished by Saturday. So now that I have the ASO, I'm wondering if I can modify it using material that I have and increase it's quality. I heard that someone put a piece of steel over the HB anvil and it worked fine for him, so that's what I'm thinking I could do. Which is why I'm here.

I've gone through my barn and looked at every piece of scrap steel I could find and get my hands on (as a poor person who has to use trash for materials, I'm not new to repurposing things). So far nothing worth mentioning. Which is why I asked if using H-Beam or a blade would be thick/strong enough material to place over my HB anvil and make it worth my time. Thanks for the answers btw. Now I know I can't use H-beam or a piece of blade.

 

7 hours ago, JHCC said:

What you're asking is essentially the same as: My house is falling apart, the beams are rotten, the foundation is sagging, and you can't walk across the living room without the floor sinking three inches. What kind of siding will fix these problems?

Actually, I was just asking if there was anything I could use outside of JB weld and literal welding to attach a piece of steel to the face of my HB anvil.

[JHCC]

If you have a piece of railroad track, just stand that on end. As long as the end is smooth and you can hold it solidly vertical, any other modification is just gravy.

6 minutes ago, 4xdblack said:

Actually, I was just asking if there was anything I could use outside of JB weld and literal welding to attach a piece of steel to the face of my HB anvil.

Two things: first, in IFI lingo, "HB" means "Hay Budden" (a darn good anvil brand, no longer made). I think you meant "HF", which is short for "Harbor Freight".

Second, you can attach anything you want with anything you want to the face of a Harbor Freight ASO. It just won't make it any better. Give up on the idea of improving the HF; you'll just waste your time. However, do go ahead and use it until you can get something better. 

[4xdblack]

Just now, JHCC said:

Second, you can attach anything you want with anything you want to the face of a Harbor Freight ASO. It just won't make it any better. Give up on the idea of improving the HF; you'll just waste your time. However, do go ahead and use it until you can get something better. 

Alright, thanks, that's what I needed to know. I plan on upgrading as soon as I possibly can. I've been keeping my eye out for potential scavenging spots. The local yellowpages are crap so I haven't found any leads there. I'm trying to figure out something that I can make and sell using the materials I have, and put that money towards an anvil fund and upgrade to something worthwhile. 

7 hours ago, JHCC said:

No. It's too soft, and won't have enough mass below the hammer blow.

And while I'm here... You say that H-beam is too soft.. Is there still use for it as forging material? 

[JHCC]

Just now, 4xdblack said:

Alright, thanks, that's what I needed to know. I plan on upgrading as soon as I possibly can. I've been keeping my eye out for potential scavenging spots. The local yellowpages are crap so I haven't found any leads there. I'm trying to figure out something that I can make and sell using the materials I have, and put that money towards an anvil fund and upgrade to something worthwhile. 

Good plan.

1 minute ago, 4xdblack said:

And while I'm here... You say that H-beam is too soft.. Is there still use for it as forging material? 

Generally speaking, most structural steel is mild and thus theoretically forgable. However, in reality, it's going to take a lot of work to break it down into workable sizes, and you're better of buying, trading, or scavenging more appropriate sizes.

That said, hang onto the H-beam: it might be useful as the base for something. Both my anvil stand and my vise stand are made from 4x6 I-beam that I scavenged from a demolition site between home and work.

[Frosty]

4X: Slow down there is no emergency involved here. All you're going to accomplish by rushing is either really expensive or really poor. I usually injure myself when in a hurry. Use the ASO if you just MUST have the job finished by Saturday. Next time do NOT agree to a deadline! That's a good lesson Right?  I charge prohibitively for deadlines and still won't guarantee I'll meet them. "Fast Good Cheap, pick two." If it's a self imposed deadline . . . well try to get over doing that to yourself if you can Brother. Mine are always unrealistic on all fronts. They don't even make a cool whooshing sound when they pass. <sigh>

Trying to scab a piece of steel on a cast iron body is WAY above your skill level, we could offer the knowledge but it'd be beyond your skills to do successfully. The only method I THINK has a chance of success would take more time and money than you say you have.

Slow down take a breath and just do the job. You won't be able to return the anvil if you've dinged it by trying to use it.

We all made and still do make mistakes, nobody is born knowing this stuff, heck much of anything so live is a learning curve. That isn't news is it? Stop fretting, there is no such thing as the perfect anything, just what works well sometimes better than others. Best is a personal thing just like arranging our shops, favorite hammer, type of fire, music, dinner, adult beverage. Whatever. Just relax and take it ONE STEP AT A TIME. You'll get there faster honest.

If you want to make sellable trinkets get a yard sale sledge hammer head and a couple ball pein hammers. A yard sale blow drier makes more air than you  need for large projects more than enough for a small forge. A hole in the ground is as traditional a solid fuel forge as there is. 

Start hitting yard, garage, rummage, etc. sales and look for smooth faced hammer heads, just the heads are WAY cheaper than ones with handles on them. Punches, chisels, allen wrenches, hack saws and any blacksmithing tools for reasonable money. Tongs are an intermediate project and worth paying more for than other things.

Don't pay extra for old and rusty! Rust doesn't make something an antique no matter what the seller claims. 

The guys are on the subject so please excuse overlap in my reply I'm too lazy to go back and edit. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Stop by my place and I'll give you an 80# rectangular solid of steel.  You'll have to do the lifting; I just got back home from surgery.

[4xdblack]

7 hours ago, Frosty said:

Next time do NOT agree to a deadline!

Oh no worries, it's nothing as serious as that. It's a personal deadline I set for myself due to what's coming up this Saturday. Thanks for the advice though!

7 hours ago, Frosty said:

If you want to make sellable trinkets get a yard sale sledge hammer head and a couple ball pein hammers. A yard sale blow drier makes more air than you  need for large projects more than enough for a small forge. A hole in the ground is as traditional a solid fuel forge as there is. 

The forge part is easy. I've almost got mine finished, but I gotta go buy a cheap thrift store hair dryer. I tried using the motor off an old inflatable mattress that I kept, but it's not powerful enough to pump air into the coals. Once I finish it and test it out and make sure I didn't totally screw up, I'm gonna try posting the results here on these forums. 

Also, I'm wanting to get into knife making specifically. I've always been a big fan of blades and weapons in general so that's the direction I'm heading. Though if it means being able to make enough money to upgrade my home-forge I'm willing to make trinkets too. 

[ThomasPowers]

Look into courses offered by the American Bladesmith Society!

[WNC Goater]

If you can return the HF anvil and get yourself a HF sledge hammer. Get a ball pein hammer while you're there.  Drill, chisel or otherwise make a shallow hole in a log that the sledge head will fit tightly into vertically.  That is a start and you CAN hammer hot steel on it though not idea. Still better than the cast iron HF hunk.

If you can find an old sledge head at a yard sale or flea market all the better.