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D2 tool steel


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Stainless steel is defined as any steel containing more than 10% chromium by mass (iirc) and the specs I was able to find on D2 state that it has between 11%-13% chromium by mass, making it a stainless steel. I would imagine it would work just fine as a blade steel, if that is your intention, as those same specs stated that it has around 1.5% carbon, which is pretty high, but the steel will decarburize during repeated welds. You will probably encounter the same problem as with other chromium containing steels, in that they form chrome oxide in between the layers, which makes welding them tricky. I've heard that alternating your layers so no 2 chromium containing steels come into contact with each other will help mitigate this. There are other threads in this forum talking about this very process, I would read those if I were you. 

 

This is not factual according to most experts its free chrome and D2  has very little free and able to form oxides.

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D2 is only a semi-stainless steel as most of that Cr is tied up in carbides. It is interesting to work hot and requires high tech heat treating to get the most out of it.  I have a friend who uses it for swords; but his Father was a research Metallurgist for Batelle and he used a computer controlled custom build inert atmosphere electric heat treat furnace to do his heat treatment

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The D2 I just got from the local specialist metal supplier is supposed to be air hardening according to the fact sheet supplied. It also has a sheen of rust on it, so definitely not enough chrome in it to make it stainless.

I am part way through making a draw knife out of my first piece, I reckon I will still try quenching it in oil.

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Can you get it and hold it at the proper temps to solutionize all the various carbides? It's an alloy that really profits from a high tech heat treat vs ad hoc methods.

Also blades usually get quenched at a step slower than mass objects due to their thinness; if the fact sheet says air oil may be iffy.

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Thomas

I was unaware the chromium was stuck in carbides.

55 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Can you get it and hold it at the proper temps to solutionize all the various carbides?

I didn't know that was even possible. The chromium (among what else may be caught in the carbides) could then be put back into the matrix of the steel? Thereby making it stainless? Could you please explain? I'm genuinely interested in this. 

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No it won't make it stainless as you won't keep it that way when cooled. The heat treatment of D2 is such that I will refer you to the ASM Metals Handbook for discussions of it. (which reference the fact that D2 achieves maximum hardness when cooled in still air except for large cross sectional areas.)

"Steels of groups A and D must be held at their austenitizing temperatures long enough to obtain required carbide solutioning if they are to obtain maximum hardness"   ASM Metals Handbook 8th edition , Vol 2 "Heat treating, Cleaning and Finishing" pg 230 "Heat Treating of Tool Steels"

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8 hours ago, Will W. said:

Stainless steel is defined as any steel containing more than 10% chromium by mass (iirc) and the specs I was able to find on D2 state that it has between 11%-13% chromium by mass, making it a stainless steel.

Incorrect. SS is defined as 12% to 12.5% free chrome that is the key issue here free chrome, in D2 most the chrome is bound up in carbides. It also has plenty of iron which if why  it got removed form the non ferrous section and placed here.

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Thomas 

I see. Thank you for the info. The handbook you mention sounds interesting and I will make sure to look into it. 

Steve

Thank you for clarifying my misinformation. That was why I put "iirc" and it seems I did not remember correctly haha. 

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On 2017. 04. 30. at 0:53 PM, MarvinB said:

A friend of mine gave me a bunch of these preferating blades there used in making toilet paper anyway i reserched them there D2 is it possible to forge weld into a billet 

If the thickness of the stock allows it (thick enough, I mean) I think you can get the most of this material by stock removal. I have no personal experience forge welding D2 but based on its chemical composition it may not be the easiest to play with. - But why not try it anyway? - experimenting is fun :)

Bests:

Gerrgely

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canister weld stuff or dangerous flux stuff.  

The complete set of ASM handbooks is over a grand now.  However I'm perfectly happy to pick up old used volumes  as most steels I use have pretty much been the same the last 50 years or so...Handy to have when you get a new alloy to play with.  It's how I learned that S1 doesn't profit from normalization...when I was given some S1 stock

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22 hours ago, Gergely said:

If the thickness of the stock allows it (thick enough, I mean) I think you can get the most of this material by stock removal. I have no personal experience forge welding D2 but based on its chemical composition it may not be the easiest to play with. - But why not try it anyway? - experimenting is fun :)

Bests:

Gerrgely

They are a 1/16 thick and most are only 4.5" long but they will make some nice electrician knives and there are a few longer ones the i may us for filet knives kinds thin but we will 

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Fillet knives are generally known for their flexibility something D2 does not excel at.

Note that if you have a number of them they would make good trading stock to get other alloys for at a conference.

D2 already has very high carbon content but as mentioned previously it is tied up in various carbides.

D2 is not a beginner's alloy. D2 is not a beginner's alloy. D2 is not a beginner's alloy. D2 is not a beginner's alloy.

You seem to want to force it to be something it is not and use skills you do not have yet to do so.  Trade if for some large bandsaw blade to make fillet knives from or to weld up into billets.

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Good evening gents

how fortunate of me to just find this thread. I just took possession of a good amount of D2, for which my questions were answered but i also got some A2, S7 and 4140.

I'm figuring the 4140 for hammers and drifts, S7 for chisels but don't know what to do with A2. Any and all guidance and corrections to proper use of these materials is much appreciated. I'm just a noob and don't have a tempering oven.

 

Thank you much

 

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Okay, I can't let it be untold, even it is cheesy to say :) :

Please don't bother with those irritative alloys! Keep only the 4140 and send me the A2 and S7 I will know how to dispose them correctly... :D

Back to serious, Thomas is very much right! D2 is not fun to forge. You can hardly move it, it's almost sure you'll mess it while forging, and if you don't you'll mess it while heat treating it. My experience shows that even HSS is easier to forge and HT than D2 like alloys.

A2 and S7 has their own problematic sides. If you're a beginner it's better wait a bit till you acquire some experience on the basics. 4140 is way more forgiving material to start with. When you have the knowledge to use your own setup to heat and heat treat tool steels give it a go.

Bests and happy hammering:

Gergely

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6 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Fillet knives are generally known for their flexibility something D2 does not excel at.

Note that if you have a number of them they would make good trading stock to get other alloys for at a conference.

D2 already has very high carbon content but as mentioned previously it is tied up in various carbides.

D2 is not a beginner's alloy. D2 is not a beginner's alloy. D2 is not a beginner's alloy. D2 is not a beginner's alloy.

You seem to want to force it to be something it is not and use skills you do not have yet to do so.  Trade if for some large bandsaw blade to make fillet knives from or to weld up into billets.

Well im not a beginner but i dont know alot about D2 and the reason i suggested making filet knives from these is because there really flexable and before its said that these may not be D2 i assure you they are 100% positive 

4 hours ago, Gergely said:

Okay, I can't let it be untold, even it is cheesy to say :) :

Please don't bother with those irritative alloys! Keep only the 4140 and send me the A2 and S7 I will know how to dispose them correctly... :D

Back to serious, Thomas is very much right! D2 is not fun to forge. You can hardly move it, it's almost sure you'll mess it while forging, and if you don't you'll mess it while heat treating it. My experience shows that even HSS is easier to forge and HT than D2 like alloys.

A2 and S7 has their own problematic sides. If you're a beginner it's better wait a bit till you acquire some experience on the basics. 4140 is way more forgiving material to start with. When you have the knowledge to use your own setup to heat and heat treat tool steels give it a go.

Bests and happy hammering:

Gergely

Well me being who i am im gonna try to forge weld it and will do so till i figure it out lol and i dont know of any other way to heat or heat treat other than my own setup 

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What Thomas says, many times over. I have an abundance, perhaps an over abundance, of D2 planer knives. Some time back, I figured I would just treat them the same as O1. It didn't work. At all. I have made several knives by stock removal and they are very functional. But, it eats belts and is very difficult to polish to a high luster. 

 

Hawk

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I have some D2 I have made some blades from. I have never tried forge welding any but I'll tell you what I've learned. It is very hard - it eats belts on a grinder if not annealed. It isn't truly stainless - but it will resist rusting way more than some other steels from my experience. Heat treating will be your biggest issue, If you plan to make a blade - look at the specs for heat treat - it is very high temp with a soak. I use an electric heat treat furnace with a controller - 1850 F for 15 mins or more depending on size. I also SS foil wrap the stock. That is a very specific procedure - you may be able to "wing it" on a normal gas forge and make it work - but I don't know how well it will turn out and wouldn't recommend it. That being said - if the metal was cheap, and you have a lot --> make some blades and practice and see what happens - it will be good experience.

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You also have not said what you want forge weld it to.

D2 is an air hardening alloy, so you need to keep the temps high enough to keep it from fracturing during forging. Not as easy as it sounds since just placing it on the anvil will suck the heat out of it at a fairly rapid rate, and you need to work it fast.

They may be flexible now because they are not fully hard. Fully hard D2 is like glass. I used it for die sets I made for punching steel tube, since it has a high wear resistance. 

.0625" is thick enough to make wood carving knives, paring knives, or any other smaller blade. It is a bit thin for a straight razor, but I would still try one of I had it, then again D2 doesn't get high marks from some bladesmiths for its difficulty to take a keen enough edge.

 

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I have an assignment I am working on that those thin strips will be perfect for, its the JPH MAD 6 mix  M2+A2+D2 for a coal fired pattern weld...when I get this to work I am keeping it  just for principle

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12 hours ago, Steve Sells said:

I have an assignment I am working on that those thin strips will be perfect for, its the JPH MAD 6 mix  M2+A2+D2 for a coal fired pattern weld...when I get this to work I am keeping it  just for principle

Sweet that's gonna be a tough one be real interested in seeing how it turns out 

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