Northumbrian Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I've not been on for a few weeks, just got a lot on at home at the moment, building works etc. Anyway, Finally got an anvil today. It was my uncles, didn't know he had it, well he was more than happy for me to have it. He'd rather I had it and used it than it sit his shed for another 20 years or more. The only problem was, it was over 1600 miles away in the North East of England, and I am in Southern Portugal. After a lengthy journey in the back of my parents car, it's finally here. It's a good 60kg, possibly 70kg. I don't think it's much more than that as i was able to lift it on my own out of the car, and on to a sack trolley. Now I just need to make a base for it, and clean it up, which, any comments or suggestions would be most gratefully received. Anyway, I'll post more pictures as I go, as well as the forge build and making of my tools. But, it's coming together now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 It's amazing how many anvils are "hiding" in sheds, garages and basements...Looks ready for at least 100 more years of work and at least you did not have to carry it in your lap on the bus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrian Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 It has literally just arrived so not had a chance to put a straight edge on it yet Any thoughts on what it is? You know who made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Well there have been over 200 anvil makers in the UK over the centuries, many of them making anvils that look very similar---as they often trained under one maker before setting out on their own and so making what they were used to. I'd need better photos but it looks to be in the Peter Wright family to me, (Is that a shadow of a ledge on the front foot?) check the sides for stampings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrian Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) I can't see any stamping on it, that's not say there aren't any under the paint. I was checking out a few Youtube vids on refurbing an anvil, and one of them was a Peter Wright, as soon as I clocked it I ran out to the shop. To check, and well ya buggerman, it might just be. Also quickly put a rule over it, the top's going to need some work, about three dips that'll need grinding out. Nothing too dramatic. I'll sort out some better pics later this evening. Edited April 13, 2017 by Northumbrian punctuation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Please don't grind the top. Those dips can work just fine for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 In general it's best to NOT GRIND OR MILL AN ANVIL FACE! There is a limited thickness of hardened face so decreasing it cuts the life of the anvil substantially. Also as mentioned a swale in the face can actually be helpful. Use it for a year or so and then see if you still think it needs to be flattened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrian Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Ah, ok, so just leave it as is, work with and see how I feel after a year. Hey I'm happy with that. What about giving it a good wire brushing? You know clean all that crap off it. Anyway, more pics as promised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 They are usually swayed end to end, but not side to side-the direction that you use it the most. You only need an area the size of your hammer head to work on, everything else is a bonus. That anvil looks in good shape. I have a 138# PW and it has a depression near the horn. I would say the majority of PW anvils I have seen are swayed, or have some other face depression. It was probably due to the soft wrought iron bodies that used, and I don't believe that they had the hardest faces either. You can do a lot of work on that anvil. Wire brush the crud off of it, mount it up, and get to work. A fine to medium unknotted wire cup wheel on a grinder will be OK. They are soft bodies, so you don't want to erase any markings that may still be left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrian Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Many thanks for all the comments so far, so the general jist is, to clean it up, but don't grind or resurface, leave it be, work with it, then see how I go after a year or so. Out of curiosity, nothing more, what's your opinion on hard facing rods, you know to say build up the surface etc... I'm only interested in opinions here, I'm going with your advice, just a question that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 do not weld on it, the heat from welding will ruin a much greater area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrian Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Ah ok, I ask, as I've seen a few people doing that, and I must say did not feel right to me, but as I know very little about anvils, I had to ask. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrian Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Oh, I forgot to mention. The anvil is from the coal mines up in the North East of England, Northumberland, where my Father & his two brothers worked. My fathers youngest brother, was a farrier for the pit ponies, and this is his anvil that he used. So it looks like I'm carrying on a family trade, so to speak. Mind you, I will not be shoeing any of my horses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Wire brush is fine and the correct way to polish the anvil face nice smooth and shiny is to work hot steel on it! Pounding hot steel on that anvil will actually polish the face and *slowly* reduce surface pitting. There are ways to repair anvils---look up Robb Gunther anvil repair method; but in general IT IS NOT NEEDED! We get a lot of people who come through this site basically saying "I have little to no experience; but I want to start out by making irreversible changes to an expensive tool that I don't know the details of using it yet" This is often made worse by welders and machinists who don't know how anvils are made or used but think they can improve them. I've seen a number of anvils turned from good using condition to scrap because a machinist thought it should have sharp edges and so milled through the hardened top plate to produce them---I have a 125 year old smithing book that says (paraphrased): "is anyone still so dumb as to think an anvil should have sharp edges!" I've seen welded on anvils where auto quenching resulted in breaking out even more material from the edges than was missing to start. I've seen anvils hardfaced with spiderweb cracking hardfacing material instead of an alloy that doesn't. As to questions---this one has been asked here many many many times! (and the answers have not changed...) Great history of the anvil and it doesn't show typical shoeing wear at all! You lucked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrian Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Well, my plan is to wire brush, by hand over the next week or so, take my time, no rush. Hot metal, doing the job, make sense to me. I am a welder & machinist, but I have a passion for quality tools, and an attitude of I don't know everything, someone else will always know more than I. I learnt toolmaking from a toolmaker who died on the job aged 107, started work at 15, and never took a day off. The mind set he instilled in me is you will never know everything, you can always learn more, life is a journey, enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommytaptap Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Nice anvil Nthn. I have a similar one of around the same age but weighs somewhat more(around 190lb.). Mine has a depression along and across the sweetest/strongest part of around 1/16th inch. I marked its rough limits across the face with a silver streak welders marking pencil and renew the mark periodically to remind me where not to try to hit my work too much. I am hoping in this way that I won't make it any deeper(I know it won't level it out- I dont have 100 years left in me he he!) I tend to do lighter work on the swayed area and heavier work(not too heavy) outside that area. Works fine for me. My advice would be to do some good research on stands. Wood is good but metal is better. Some go for 4 legs, others swear by 3. Mine came with a quality made 4 leg and suits me fine. They do say a 3 is best for steadiness i.e. non wobbling but, if it is knocked sideways by something heavy it can tip over-not good! The base of my anvil is around 12" by 10" but the feet of the stand are at 27" by 25"-steady as a rock from all angles. All your anvil needs is a good old wire wheeling on drill or grinder around the whole body apart from the face. Just give the face a good hand wire brushing, some light 240 grit hand sanding, another brush and plenty of oil on it all over everywhere-wire brush it in to it. From then on just an oily cloth wipeover weekly and leave the cloth over the face when not in use is all you'll need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 That's a very nice anvil in fine fettle. Looks to be a forged body with a top plate to me but others may be able to tell you more. As advised above, do nowt but use it, you'll find that saddle indispensible for straightening, much easier than using a flat face as there is room below the work for it to deflect into. I think you need to make you're uncle a gift, a farrier in a Nurthumberland mine you say.....then I suggest you make him a bottle opener for his Newky Broon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I have a friend who is a welder; in fact he teaches it at a local community college. He's also a highly skilled blacksmith and so was the one I took an anvil to when I wanted the air arc gouging on the face dealt with (had been abused in a copper mine in it's youth, 410 pounds with a lovely flat face in between the air arc chasms...) He used the Gunther method, with proper preheat slow cool etc and now my backup anvil looks great and works great! I have another friend who does machining as a hobby and his mindset is so different than what I'm used to in blacksmithing. He once made me a shaft to hold a crane's headache ball in a hardy hole for armour work. He brought it back talking about how the threaded hole was not concentric with the hole leading to it so he had machined a converter fitting---and spent a lot of time doing so. I told him I would have just jammed a piece of rod in and cast lead around it and not wasted the time... So when I get students who are trying for micrometer work with a sledgehammer I tell them to look into machining as there they will *pay* for such work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrian Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Smoggy, my uncle & I have the same tastes.... Led Zepplin, Guiness, & Single malt Whisky. Sorting him out a little thank you will not be a difficult task. As per working to micrometer standards, that's for my machines to do, not my hammers. I've got a load of old roof timbers, from the original workshop roof. It's all steel now. So I'll make the base for the anvil from those. Bore holes right though with an auger bit, pass some thread bar through, and bolt the whole lot together, so the anvil sits on end grain. I'll make a tee shaped wooden analogue for the anvil, and use that to get the work height right. rather than busting my back lifting the anvil on and off, to get the height of the base right. More photos to follow, everything I do, as I learn, I will post on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgunn1962 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 End grain timbers do seem to work well. I routed a pocket into an end-grain base for my anvil to sit in and cut a piece of Fabreeka Fabcel 25 psi anti-vibration mat to fit. The difference it makes to the noise level is astonishing. The Fabcel is pricy (mine was a freebie) so if I was doing it again, I'd probably clingfilm the bottom of the anvil to stop it sticking and bed it on low modulus silicone. It seems to me that the contact area is important, allowing the initial sound wave to travel on into the base, rather than getting reflected back into the anvil and bouncing around to produce the ring. A wire cup brush on an angle grinder will do a great job of cleaning it up, with the caveat that it can be the most dangerous tool you'll ever use. Once it's clean, a dusting with chalk or similar will usually help to show up any markings there may be. Don't be surprised if there aren't any though. What are you using for a forge? If you are intending to build a gasser on this side of the pond, I can wholeheartedly recommend basing your burner on an Amal Atmospheric Injector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 This is how i mount anvils. The size of the log will change in relation to the anvil. But the theory is same. I can roll around a very heavy anvil. The base is a brake drum. 16.5 inch dia. 11-1/4" tall. The flange is 14" dia. Just mounted this RR Track makeshift anvil for a specific purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrian Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 8 hours ago, timgunn1962 said: End grain timbers do seem to work well. I routed a pocket into an end-grain base for my anvil to sit in and cut a piece of Fabreeka Fabcel 25 psi anti-vibration mat to fit. The difference it makes to the noise level is astonishing. The Fabcel is pricy (mine was a freebie) so if I was doing it again, I'd probably clingfilm the bottom of the anvil to stop it sticking and bed it on low modulus silicone. It seems to me that the contact area is important, allowing the initial sound wave to travel on into the base, rather than getting reflected back into the anvil and bouncing around to produce the ring. A wire cup brush on an angle grinder will do a great job of cleaning it up, with the caveat that it can be the most dangerous tool you'll ever use. Once it's clean, a dusting with chalk or similar will usually help to show up any markings there may be. Don't be surprised if there aren't any though. What are you using for a forge? If you are intending to build a gasser on this side of the pond, I can wholeheartedly recommend basing your burner on an Amal Atmospheric Injector. Thanks for the tip on noise reduction, Portugal is somewhat absent when it comes to certain things. I've just checked out the Fabreeka website, so I've got an idea of what you're talking about, see if I can find something like over here. I'm just going to take my time and wire brush by hand, With what I did last night, I can't see any markings at all, nothing. So it probably doesn't have any. Doesn't matter to me anyway. I've got the family history with the anvil and that's something many, including myself, find more interesting. So I'm not going to waste my time actively looking for any markings. That's not to say if any appear, I'll not work on cleaning them up. As per forge, not decided yet, but I'm just going to make up a quick one from the clay soil I have here. build up some side to it and use charcoal, as that far more abundant where I live. Although I may go gas later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrian Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 Been reading some posts on sand box stands, the idea appeals to me, as I can adjust my work height simply by adding or subtracting sand. Given, I'm just starting out this might be a sensible approach at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 That is a lovely anvil. Like others said, use it as it is. The slight dips on the surface are from working. Think of them like slightly worn stone threads. Would you render the surface with cement to make them flat? Hopefully not ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrian Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 Well, you kind gents were good enough to guide me in the right direction, it would be rather rude of me to disregard the advice given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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