Hawgdirt Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I've been trying to forge some wolf jaw tongs out of rr spike. Right now I'm on my 6th or 7th attempt, I'm getting better but having trouble getting them to set together. Probably not the easiest style of tongs for first pair. I understand the concept of the setdowns but can't get them to fit. Here's some pics tell me what y'all think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Are you using a butcher or a side set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 The bolster needs to shoulder to the jaws like to the reins. Not a LOT but what you have looks like a good preform for a set of shears. You've drawn those jaws too thin and wide, wolf jaws tend to look like they were made from 3/8" rd. and flattened slightly to help resist bending. Make both halves at the same time, step by step it makes it much easier to get them the same. I just deleted a long winded few paragraphs because I'm not the guy to be telling anybody how to make tongs. Mine barely function most times, I'm pretty thrilled I lucked into a number a while back. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasent Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I would do your step downs over a more radiused edge. Looks like a smal fold or crack between jaws and boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranchmanben Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I'm no expert but it looks to me like your material is traveling as you are setting it down. Or your using a very large radius. When you initially make your set down blow use a half on half off blow you'll create a lip that will hang off the far side of your anvil. After the first blow or two you shoul be able to pull your stock towards you to keep that lip on the far side of the anvil and get a more perpendicular set down. The same holds for using the near side of the anvil, get it started the push slightly against it to hold it in place. Hope this helps. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgdirt Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 I'm sorry but I think I got the name wrong, they're called Flat nib tongs, might be the same as wolf jaw tongs but they're made from rr spikes. I have coil spring but my anvil isn't anchored enough to uncoil them. Think some bolt tongs might be easier to forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranchmanben Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I wouldn't say that bolt tongs would be easier. You are still going to be using the same methods for bolt tongs as flat jaw tongs plus you're going to be adding in slitting the jaws for your stock. Don't get discouraged! I think we've already found your problem. You've got to get your anvil attached to something solid! If not, it's moving around every time you hit it with any blow that isn't directly down in the center and probably bouncing some then too. So every set down blow you are swinging you are moving your anvil away from you or towards you depending on the side you're using and that would easily account for why you're having problems. It hasn't got to be anchored so good it will hold back a tank but the better you anchor it the better ALL your work will be and easier. You're on the right track but if you can't straighten some coil spring without having your anvil move your setting yourself up for failure. Get you anvil secure at a workable height and you'll be amazed at the difference it will make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 looks to me like you are missing a step or set. Technicus Joe has a great tutorial on tongs from rr spikes on youtube. I have made some from that tutorial successfully. study it well them take it to the anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgdirt Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Well that's what I was trying to follow was his video, I'm not getting something right though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 When I made my first tongs after studying his tutorial, they turned out pretty bad. I went back and watched it several more times with having actually tried it and things became clearer. Keep at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgdirt Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 I believe I've found my problem. It's at my 45 degree set down for the boss. I'm setting it down right on the or a little behind the first set down so I'm too far back and my first set down is way too deep if that even matters. I think I'm also having difficulties with my set downs because the old anvil I'm using, the edges have large radius on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 You could make a block to go in the hardy hole that has less radiused edges for tasks that require it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petere76 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Suggest you pay attention to properly forming the bolster. You can isolate on the anvils edge. Then you have to refine it. Use a cross pein and set the edge on the anvil so you define the shape of the bolster. You are looking for a good 1 in x 1in area at 1/2 your parent stock thickness. Also the offset for the reign should be set so that the reign side is above the center of the bolster. Terriers, make great tongs and they use the buck to forge in a curved offset, it's very strong and looks classy. For the basics, reference Mark Aspery on box tong forging. He shows good dimensions and the process to get there. Brian Brazil does a great one Heat tong demonstration. He makes it look too easy. Good luck and happy forging, don't worry you will get better, the more you make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgdirt Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 They may not be perfect but I forged me a working set of flat nib tongs. Learned a lot from trying again and again. I did learn never to use 1/4" rivet. Just wasn't enough meat on them. I'd heart it up and try and set it but it just would collapse on itself, so went with 3/8 and that did the trick. Those are not cracks by the way, just the flaps from the rr spike. Didn't forge weld it together. I did have a question, what is a bolster? Is the bolster and boss the same thing or different things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 19 hours ago, Hawgdirt said: I did have a question, what is a bolster? Is the bolster and boss the same thing or different things? A bolster can be used when forging rivets, forging tennons, or creating a gap between the rivet and the steel that has the rivet in it so that it leaves enough sticking out to later pein over. bolster plate- 19 hours ago, Hawgdirt said: Those are not cracks by the way, just the flaps from the rr spike. Those "flaps" are cold shuts, which are not desirable when blacksmithing, especially on something that needs to be structurally strong. They weaken the steel because instead of having one solid piece of steel, you have two separate thin pieces. I Have found, that you don't even need the head when making flat jaw tongs. I just cut it off as far close to the head so that I have the most steel I can, and it just saves time and frustration. Your making progress, just be sure to make things nice and beefy. When I make tongs, I take one heat and rough out the jaws and boss to see how much steel that will take. When I do that, at the end of the heat things are at least 3/8" thick. Then I draw out the reins and finish the them. After that I go back to the jaws and clean them up, making them Close to the finished dimensions, but still not THE finished dimensions, Well, Because we aren't finished. I am always sure to leave the boss nice and thick. Then I punch the boss. The punching of the boss makes the boss thinner due to "suck down", that's why we didn't bring it to the final dimensions. Then you clean up the jaws and boss, etc., and rivet them and tweak. The boss should be the thickest on the tongs, and where the jaws meet the boss should be the thickest part of the jaws. The jaws should be a little thicker than 1/4" at least and the boss 3/8" at least. You seem to have that down, but just to make them over all beefier. Also, the boss will look better if it is a square. I don't mean to have sharp transitions, in fact you don't want things to have sharp transitions, but to have the sides all the same=square. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgdirt Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 Well this was my attempt at making v bit tongs. They resemble v bit tongs but they're not very useful. Not really sure the best way to make the v part. I put mine in a vise just like the videos but they kept falling through. I made an s hook and a spoon yesterday as a confidence booster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 My first V-bits came out much the same, but turned out to be pretty useful anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I would recommend deepening the cut for the V, that way there is more contact and a better hold on your material. Also, I have found that you have to take your time when cutting in the V. when using a chisel or punch, you hit, remove, hit remove, ect. So you can look at your work, see where you need to go, what you need to correct, straighten out, and it allows your punch to stay cooler and your steel stay hot longer. no reason to rush and then have to redo it and make it take more time. Same thing applies with cutting the V. Hit, remove. I even go to the extent to take a pair of calipers and mark out the middle. Than l lightly lay out my line, adjust if need to. Then a little harder, and harder. Removing and looking every hit. Also it helps to look down the end of the bar to see if your are going down straight like in pic 1. Don't give up! each one gets better! though i have had some oddballs that didn't turn out better than the last, but that was because I was in a hurry. "I'm in a hurry to get things done rushing rush...."Ok, I'll stop, some of ya'll hopefully get it! Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Looks like they are getting too much O2---the "crunchy look". If so work on adjusting your forge and making sure there is enough fuel below and on top of it if it's solid fuel and adjust the choke if it's propane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-1ToolSteel Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Also could be too much power on the blower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew D Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 One of the most important things I learned from a tong making class is that after you forge each tong and each part matches, then rivet them together. You make a lot of adjustments after they are riveted by heating them back up and tweaking them to fit the steal it will hold. Also, heat them so they are red hot and straighten them in the vise to get them just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 You are on the right Path. Make sure that each part of each half is the same. 5 minuets in the forge will save you 20 minuets of filing. The closer you can forge to finish the better they will fit. When working on each area of the forging do not complete it all at once. set the Jaw, Boss and reins the go back and bring them into shape. On your Boss never hit the surfaces of boss that are the contact faces. Make sure you anvil surface is smooth. As far as Bolt Jaw tongs cut with a thin chisel then Use a chisel with a 90 degree edge to set the jaws. keeping both sides even Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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