What can you make....?

[Ridgewayforge]

I've noticed a lot that people are always posting things like "What can I make with _____", be it RR spikes, lawnmower blades, Rebar, old tools, etc. 

We all want a step by step on how to be great; I think its in all of us to have a little fear of the unknown. But isn't that the simple joy of blacksmithing? We take something, and with each hammer blow the unknown becomes a little more known. What was a 3lb hammer blank can turn into a hammer if we want, or into a lampstand, or you can take it, draw it out, and make dozens of S hooks with it. When we take the steel and heat it, then we start looking at the unknown and making it known. 

So, its hard; on the one hand it is good to get advice; that's why forums are such great powerhouses of knowledge- many like minded people coming together to get different perspectives on things. So its natural to take a piece of steel, usually one that is scrounged, and ask "What can I make with this"? Be it a crow bar, old hammer, shovel, large flat bar, or the like. 

Well, that's a good question. what can you make with it? Its a better question than 'what can I make with it?' 

Sure, advice is good- but what if you tried to make something out of it? What if you took that leap into the unknown and try to make something  out of the railroad spike, or the large piece of rebar- Like its always said, strike while the iron is hot. 

 

Just a little thought-

 

[JHCC]

Good thoughts.

[Chris Comtois]

I find myself asking a lot, "what can I use for...?" rather than "what can I make from...?"  For example, if I'm working on a project and I need a certain widget I don't have, I find myself going through my scrap pile looking for something I can use instead.  I nearly always find something.  Sometimes it even works out better. 

My advice to those who ask "what can I make from...?" would be to put whatever it is aside, keep a mental inventory (I know I had XXX around here somewhere, dag nabbit!) and keep reading and browsing - eventually you will see something that sparks an idea.

[SmoothBore]

I often see questions posed on this site, that are essentially the same thought, ... in reverse.

To wit: ... "What should I use, to make  X " ?

And I think that's an easier way to answer that question.

Reconfigure an old "cold chisel" to make a punch or hardy tool, or any kind of "struck" tool.

Use old saw blades to make new "blades" of any sort.

When I see guys wanting to take big old chunks of steel, and spend endless hours cutting them into smaller bits and pieces, ... I  can't help but wonder, ... "what was he thinking" ?

 

I think one of the functions of "maturity", is when you stop looking at things from a perspective of "What CAN I do with this" ? ... and instead, approach the question as, ... "what SHOULD I do with this" ?

Asking essentially, ... "To what purpose is this thing best suited" ?

 

[SReynolds]

a RR Spike will make approx 700 3/16" shank nails at about 2-2.5" long and they work well to secure a rail, I'm sure.

[Tubalcain2]

very well said, smoothbore.

[ThomasPowers]

Some folks who have a long time in the field get a bit cantankerous about this sort of question and end up pushing back a bit.  Billy Merritt made a pattern welded railroad spike IIRC and wasn't it JPH who once made a file from a knife?  (And of course A.G.Russell who once flattened and folded an Al beer can and honed it till he could shave with the edge...)

The difference between what the askee can make and what the asker can make can be very large indeed!

[rockstar.esq]

Ridgeway,

I can see where you're coming from and you're making solid observations.  As I was reading everyone's posts I remembered something from when I tried to teach guitar.  I found that new students had a fairly short window of time that they're willing to try before they become convinced it's "not for them".  The defining moment that converts it into a continuing pursuit is when they're able to play something that sounds good to them. 

Once I picked up on that, I asked new students for a list of their favorite songs so I could find some part that a stone-cold beginner could play.  Sometimes just a part of the chorus was all we'd start on.  Quickly getting to that moment where they loved what they'd played made all the difference.  Spending three weeks perfecting a basic technique that didn't sound good to the student rarely lead to a fourth lesson.  In contrast, a student who felt like they'd nailed three notes of a Jimmy Page solo by week two, would happily pound away for two months on fundamentals to bring the rest of the song within their reach.

Once the techniques are down, the perspective shifts from mimicking an idol, to expressing themselves. For some, they get to the point where they can technically play nearly anything that's been done.  Dreaming it up in the first place is where the genius is revealed.

Circling back to your point, I think that asking "what could be done" with XYZ material is more about a search for attainable awesomeness, than it is a lazy approach to learning.

[SReynolds]

Jimmy

Jimmy Page.

Rock On

From what I see in my area, teachers/instructors do not want students playing guitar. They drill drill drill drill them into frustration with learning/memorizing notes on the fret board. NO PLAYING OF SONGS !!! Many a student I have spoken to relay the same message. No Songs!! Just notes. They don't learn how to play. Why I'm self taught. With playing of chords.

Same is true for myself as a blacksmith instructor for a historic village. I have, for years covered terms, tooling,fire maintenance and iron/steel. The folks fell asleep. No joke. Now I jump right into striking lessons/hammer control to which they make an S Hook. Nail. Hot Dog Fork etc.etc.etc. Then I stop that and have them set down for some book learning, terminology, tooling, steel ID and etc. etc. 

[Marc1]

Absolutely agree with rockstar ... (are you really?) 

Just like with anything one wants to learn, it is in the early stages that support in any area helps along.

I play piano since I was 3.

20 years classic music reading from music sheets.

Yet I wanted to play jazz. A timid question to my german teacher got me the answer ... there are no music books to play jazz.

So I stopped playing for some 10 years, completely saturated of classic stuff.

Then, sitting in front of the piano with no book in front of me, I thought ... the music I want is in there, I just need to press the right keys to bring it out.

And so I did, slowly and painstakingly I learned to improvise and I play with my eyes closed anything I feel like ... despite poor advice from my classic music teacher. 

What was the question again? ... oh yes ... inspiration ... ha ha

Technical aspects seem to be popular with advice givers but inspiration request are frown upon for no good reason.

Any artist can have a block, let alone someone new. Suggestions to the question 'what can I do with this' are a perfectly valid way to help someone and asking shouldn't reflect negatively.  

In my experience if I ask what could I write about, or what could I play, the answer will probably help me sort out my own thoughts and will most likely be what I don't want to do, and push me in the right direction.

Ask away always, and learn to sort out the answers I say.

And if you answer, answer in a supportive way without judgment ... We are all different. 

[Judson Yaggy]

700 nails?

[rthibeau]

oh yeah...you can draw a rr spike out to almost infinity to get small nail size ..... maybe even beyond. .........

[Mark Ling]

11 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

 Billy Merritt made a pattern welded railroad spike IIRC and wasn't it JPH who once made a file from a knife?

kinda along the same lines. techniques Joe took several railroad spike knives and made a railroad spike out of it. Was a nice example of thinking outside the barn.

                                                                                                                                       Littleblacksmith

[rockstar.esq]

On 12/6/2016 at 1:38 PM, Marc1 said:

Absolutely agree with rockstar ... (are you really?) 

 

Marc,

Alas, no, I'm not a rockstar although that was "plan A" coming out of high school.  Now I look back and I'm glad I'd thought of plans B, C, D...

 

[Kozzy]

Rockstar's musical epiphany is brilliant.  I only hope I can hammer that into my memory as it can be applied to numerous corners of life.  

As to "what can I make?", being a child of the 60's, that question always drags back memories of playing Bill Cosby comedy albums until they were worn out.  Specifically, his routine about high school shop class:  In a nutshell, never tell anyone what you are trying to make because if it fails, all you have to do is put a couple of grooves in it and tell people it's an ashtray.

 

[Marc1]

8 hours ago, Kozzy said:

Rockstar's musical epiphany is brilliant.  I only hope I can hammer that into my memory as it can be applied to numerous corners of life.  

As to "what can I make?", being a child of the 60's, that question always drags back memories of playing Bill Cosby comedy albums until they were worn out.  Specifically, his routine about high school shop class:  In a nutshell, never tell anyone what you are trying to make because if it fails, all you have to do is put a couple of grooves in it and tell people it's an ashtray.

 

Ha ha, so true. if you improvise music, you quickly learn to lead with the left and follow with the right, no such thing as a wrong key nor a mistake. 

(Kozzy ... I hate your avatar)

[omegabrock]

I really like the idea of this post and as a complete beginner, it gives some good perspective to the craft as a whole. Along with the bit about "what can you make with..." opposed to "what should you make with..."

 

[Ridgewayforge]

I think that's the key, omegabrock. I'm not advocating not asking advice or following it, but sometimes I wonder if we build the box, then ask someone to help us to get out of it. Perhaps its just my background in philosophy, but I really think that when we have something, an idea, a piece of steel, a problem, a snag in the next step, that it can be helpful to place it in a new light- Maybe you can't figure out what to do with the piece of scrap because you haven't turned it upside down to see what it looks like it wants to be from there. 

 

Imagination is a powerful tool, and its effective use is what makes someone truly great.