What is this? 2

[Chuck60]

What Is this?

[Jimmyiorn]

Looks to be a pulley of some type, similar to ones from the top of a barn for a hay spear

[ThomasPowers]

Nope; it's a traveler used by a blacksmith to measure the outside circumference of a wooden wagon wheel so you can then measure the metal needed to make the tyre for it.

search on blacksmith traveler and look at the images...

[Chuck60]

Do not think it's a pulley there is no groove for the rope.

[Jimmyiorn]

Yes, I see no groove in looking at it more good call ThomasP, pretty sure it's not the first time I was wrong and pretty sure not the last(just ask my wife)haha

[ThomasPowers]

Not rare blacksmith's tool though most folks don't have much call to use them anymore. You start at a designated spot on the wheel with the traveler lined up and run it around the outside edge counting full revolutions. When you get back to the designated spot t=you make a chalk line on the traveler to represent the fraction of a full revolution.  Then transfer that to your piece of metal making allowance for the shrink fit and weld.  Nowadays we tend to just use a tape measure.

[Chuck60]

Thanks for the information..

[notownkid]

I've collected a number of photos of old blacksmith shops and a lot of them have these "travelers" hanging on the side of the chimney.  Presume so they remember where it is when needed.??  

[swedefiddle]

 Nowadays we tend to just use a tape measure.

How many Tape Measures with the burnt, illedgible first 10 inches of a 25 foot Tape Measure. I guess there is a reason, to purchase cheap/inexpensive Tape Measures, or, nice Brass folding rulers. One of the first exercises I do with all students, is to take a foot long (+/-) piece of flat bar (whatever width) and make a hook rule. I don't mark it out with a hacksaw, I use a piece of soap stone. K.I.S.S. It is THIS long (or short)!! I have yet to see/find a Hook Rule that is illedgible .

Neil

 

[Glenn]

You can measure COLD curved surfaces with a plastic / fiberglass flexible measure used by a seamstress or tailor. Works great for scrolls etc as it can follow the curved surfaces.

As has been discussed in other threads, tape measures are not always accurate, either caused by the moveable end (for inside or outside measuring) or not always starting at the end of the rule. To avoid this, you can start at the 10 inch mark to measure, remembering to subtract the original 10 unused inches from the total measurement. 

There was a link to a farm wagon being built recently where the blacksmith used tie wire to make most of the measurements where the metal would go around the ends of things such as a single tree or double tree. Measure the length, straighten out the wire and then transfer the measurement to the stock to be cut and used.

Solder can be used as it is very flexible and can then be straightened and used to transfer length to the stock being used so it can be cut to length.

 

Some of the travelers are quite detailed as to the markings on the side for distance. The circumference is well thought out to give a length suitable for the project at hand. The smaller circumferences work for smaller projects, but for a much larger project, they use a larger traveler with a larger circumference. Makes keeping track of the number of revolutions much easier. There is a traveler of sorts that is used in road work (or other distance measurements) that has a projection that contacts a counter once per revolution. You extend the handle, zero the counter, and walk the distance. Read the counter and multiply by the circumference to get the distance traveled. There is a small version of the traveler used in mapping to follow a road and find the distance traveled.

The same traveler concept has been adapted to sewing where the wheel looks like a spiked gear and is used to transfer patterns. If you go to leather work, the wheel looks like a spiked gear and is used to mark stitching holes. Ever look at a pizza cutter? Same traveler concept but now used to cut pizza, just a cutting edge, no measurements needed.

[JHCC]

You can still see high tech versions being used by utility workers etc. to measure and mark distances on roadways. 

[ThomasPowers]

I make my hook rules by buying *old* framing squares with the stamped in letters and then just cutting off the narrow leg an inch or two from the corner.  (Save for the *old old* one which had been handmade and stamped.  It's in my old tool rack.  I've found them as cheap as US$1 at fleamarkets and my beverly shear has no problems cutting them.

Now for nicking billets for folding I did take a slab or 3/8" plate and put a center line mark in it with a chisel and then lay out measurements by the 1/4" from both sides so I can slap a hot billet on it, find the 1/2 way mark and nick it and fold it in one heat. I tend to not use that one for a general cutting plate.

[Frank Turley]

A little more to add. Picture enclosed of my travelers. The larger 24 inch one I purchased a few years ago from an Amish supply place in Ohio. Sorry I can't recall the name. It is probably cast of an aluminum alloy and perhaps lathe turned for accuracy. On the reverse in raised cast letters is, "Pine Creek IN 83850." The small brass traveler was made by noted smith, Tom Bredlow, of Tucson, AZ. Tom showed up at the 1976 ABANA Conference in Carbondale, IL, with at least a half dozen of these to give out as presents. He told me that his grandfather was a tinsmith who made a traveler as part of his apprenticeship, and Tom inherited it, so these that Tom made were apparently duplicates. The traveler is a 12 inch one, very carefully laid out numerically and with what I suppose are etched marker lines. If the lines were chiseled, it would have ruined and distorted the circumference. My traveler is signed and dated on the back. I treasure it.

I've seen a few old, manufactured 24" travelers of cast iron. Of course as noted above, many old travelers were shop made without the numerals. You simply counted the rotations and partial rotation.

The term we use for the median line of a curve is the "neutral axis." This means not to run the traveler on the outside or inside of a curved length, but rather to run it on the neutral axis to get the length.
 

[ThomasPowers]

Frank; would that happen to be Lehman's Hardware in Kidron Ohio?  They did very well when the Y2K scare went around as they had a lot of the "old school" items sourced as their main clientele was the Amish.  (I've been through their several times when I lived in Columbus and even went to one of the Auctions up there, understood enough German to hear the collusion going on against the English too)

[gote]

17 hours ago, Glenn said:

To avoid this, you can start at the 10 inch mark to measure, remembering to subtract the original 10 unused inches from the total measurement.

 

Yes Glenn REMEMBERING is the key word. In Sweden we have a (very good) type of tape measure where the box has a 100mm flip out extension at the back for measuring inner distances. Thus they have two sets of numbers; red for the +100mm and black for the others. Please do not ask me how I know this so well . It is also possible to use a two meter ruler, turn it upside down and cut at 95cm instead of 105 Can anyone explain to me why one always cuts too short when getting the numbers wrong. Never too long

ort

[Glenn]

Your measuring starting from the wrong end of the ruler. (grin)

For inside measurements, use two rules, both shorter than the total inside measurement. Put the rulers together overlapping each other, them slide the rules so the ends of the rules contacts the sides to be measured. You know the length of one rule, just read and add the measurement from the end of the other rule to the part being measured.

For example, you have a large pipe and 2 each 12 inch rules. Put the rules together and overlapping, and slide the rules so they contact the inside of your pipe. You have one 12 inch measure PLUS what ever the second rule shows, lets say 6 inches. Add the two measurements and you have an 18 inch (12+6) opening.

You do not need rules for this, as two of anything will do. This results in one full length and leftovers. You can also overlap and slide the two pieces of material (say welding rods, sticks, whatever) and make one mark on both. Remove the two pieces of material. Realign the marks and then transfer the overall correct distance to the stock to be cut.

[Kozzy]

Remember also that wagon wheels were never round nor exactly the same size wheel to wheel (especially when being re-tired).  A traveler makes much quicker and more accurate work of adapting to these variations than trying to wrap an old-school tape around the perimeter, especially on really big wheels. 

On a bit of a side note, around this area the heavy wheat wagons would have to go down 1500+ feet in elevation to the Snake river to be loaded on paddle wheelers.  The problem was, the wagon tires would heat up and expand, causing horrible breakdowns as well as starting to burn the brake shoes and dry out the rims (wooden parts on wheels, like barrels, need to stay a little damp to work properly). Their solution was to double-tire the wheels, one over another in addition to the extra side-pinning.  This gave more mass that would take longer to over-heat as well as better compression against the rims/spokes.  A traveler would make quick work of measuring a tire to go over a tire.

[ThomasPowers]

Now I'm wanting to know who measures the wooden wagon wheel *hot*?  I also tend not to heat stock before cutting to length or at least measuring and marking if I'm going to hot cut it.

[Kozzy]

if I implied in my ramblings that they were measured hot, I apologize.  That was not what I was getting at--simply that the traveler is a good tool to get the job done.  We do have a trained wheelwright at the local museum and he's very careful on the measurements...but does it cold. 

[Frank Turley]

Thomas, No, it was a small buggy manufacturing firm that sold a few tools on the side.

[gote]

Yes Glenn You are right on all points. I know but i still do it occasionally . The good feasture of that tape measure is that you can measure and lock. It has two hard points that allow you to set off the measured dimension on another piece. Works beauyifully on wood  but also on mild steel even if not so visibly.

[ThomasPowers]

For hot metal I tend to use my steel hook rule and/or a set of steel calipers including some hand forged ones.  Old tools deserve to be used!