Cross pein conundrum

[rockstar.esq]

It occurred to me today that although I've seen a lot of hammer heads, I can't recall seeing a cross pein where the pein was offset to the top of the head like the claws on a framing hammer.

I noticed that cross pein designs that aren't symmetrical tend to place the pein on the lower half of the head like the French pattern.  I've also seen some called "Viking" pattern, as well as "Colonial" patterns that had peins biased to the bottom profile of the head.

From what I've read, the French pattern is a "cutaway" to allow it to be used inside of a hand made lock case.  I can imagine the vertical edge of the "cutaway" would give the smith some perspective of where the pein is inside of the case.  I have no idea if the earliest French patterns were actually cut from a symmetrically headed hammer or if they were forged to that shape.

As I think about it, it sure seems like a pein that was offset to the top of the head would maximize the moment forces of the swing just a little more than symmetrical or bottom offset pein.  It also seems like the visibility for use inside of a lock case would be improved with the mass of the head completely to one side.

I'm sure that any advantage one way or the other is minimal, but it strikes me as odd that smiths around the world have such a variety of hammer patterns, yet I've never seen one with the pein offset to the top of the head.  I'd be interested to hear any explanations for it.  Thanks in advance.

 

[Frosty]

Oh gee THANKS another conundrum to occupy my mind just what I need! I often get the feeling odd looking tools and . . . things fall into the, "Give it a name QUICK!" category. Tools and stuff most folk would consider a mistake but if you name it you can camouflage it and folk will just HAVE to have one. ALA Bob Ross, "We don't make mistakes we have happy accidents."

Frosty The Lucky.

[gote]

Whem the head strikes there is a slight reaction moment in the handle that wants to bend the end upwards. An offset pein gives a rotating moment to the head when it strikes. If the pein is on the nearside this moment is directed the other way so the maximum moment in the handle is decreased, Both moments would I think be negligible except perhaps as to the fixing of the head to the handle.

I doubt thatt his is the reason. The claw is a very different animal. Normally you do not strike with it.

[rockstar.esq]

gote,  That's a very interesting explanation. If I understand you correctly, the near sided offset pein would slightly reduce rebound which I suppose might reduce vibration in the handle.

It leads me to wonder if a far sided offset pein would increase rebound enough to make it worth the potential vibration?

Now I'm wishing I could play around with a pair of identical heads with offset peins.  Mount one with the pein on the near side, and another with the pein on the far side to see what differences there are in use.

Frosty, I actually thought the first "French" pattern hammer I saw was a "happy accident" because it looked almost damaged to my eye! 

I have a chrome "California Framer" hammer that uses a hatchet handle.  It's one of the most beautiful tools I own and it's a pleasure to use.  The way the poll transitions to the claws at the eye is graceful in a way that's similar to 1930's hood ornaments.  In fact, the whole profile is somewhat wing shaped. 

I noticed that some of the cross peins made for farriers would have similar aesthetics if their symmetrical pein was offset to the far side.

[Kozzy]

Think about the center of mass of the hammer head as the blow is struck.  Because of the natural wrist angle and some other factors, I would say that the tendency is for the handle to be level or slightly lower than the head, putting the center of mass in line with a pein when the pein is located toward the user side (or centered).

If the pein is located toward the outside, the center of mass in use would want to impose a rotation to the hammer unless the handle was tilted at an upward angle.  That seems an unnatural position for forging with far less control of the blow.

[rockstar.esq]

Kozzy I think the reaction force would happen after the blow so it's not going to affect control so much as rebound.  As for angle of attack, I think that's going to be a function of pein length relative to the angle of the handle.  Stubby farrier-style cross peins compared to long Swedish cross peins would exhibit the same problems you're describing, depending on who's swinging the hammer.

[Frank Turley]

I once told a French guy that if he turned his French hammer head around, he'd have a good looking hammer. He became incensed. Ha!

I have a hunch that regional styles of hammer heads occurred over years by happenstance. Perhaps a very talented smith used a personal pattern hammer for his work. Others saw that, and made their hammers look like his in the hopes that their work would improve.  This thread also reminds me of hammer face shapes. On the Continent, a squarish face is common. The French face is rectangular. In the U.S., the round face was not frowned upon.

The Channellock Company made an American model, cross peen, forging hammer of square stock, but they corner chamfered to provide a round face. The peen was centered on the hammer head length. The hammer weights in pounds were 2 1/2; 3; 4; and 5. I currently use the Channellock 2 1/2 pounder as my everyday go-to hammer. I like it, but I wouldn't twist your arm to make you use one. Channellock quit making the hammers about 35 years ago.

A saying. "You can get used to anything. You can get used to hanging if you hang long enough."

[SLAG]

Senor Turley,

Why is the French style of hammer called a lock maker's hammer? I have not figured that one out. Was it because lock makers first designed and used it?

The French pattern hammer is also popular in Quebec province too. (in Canada that is).

SLAG.

[Frank Turley]

Sorry Slag. I don't have an answer to your query.

[matto]

Quebec is a French providence, so it would make since that they like a French style cross pein.  

[swedefiddle]

1 hour ago, SLAG said:

The French pattern hammer is also popular in Quebec province too. (in Canada that is).

SLAG.

Good Morning,

I don't want to start a fuss, but, I think the saying is, "In Canada, eh", not  'in Canada that is'. Now as an awful lot of US citizen's would say "in Canada, Huh".

The Hammer Conundrum is a very well looked after Discussion. The Best Hammer, is the one you own, preferrably the one you made. The requirement is, a Lump on a Stick that suits you, for what you are doing, at the time you are requiring it's use. What about the Colour?? or Color???

Sorry, just teasing!!!

Neil

[SLAG]

Mr. Matto,

Yes, I think you are correct.

Senor T..   I appreciate your response and candor.

Thanks,

SLAG.

You can see French style hammers in action  in the video forging a Biscayne axe posted two weeks ago. Made by Les Forgerons de Montreal

[Dom]

19 hours ago, SLAG said:

You can see French style hammers in action  in the video forging a Biscayne axe posted two weeks ago. Made by Les Forges de Montreal

Yes, Mathieu's hammer in the video is a huge MOB 5 pounders which he swings as easily as if it was a 2 pounds hammer.

He told me that the main advantage of that kind of pein is that it is longer while keeping roughly the same mass on either side of the handle.

[matto]

Brent bailey's every day hammer is a seven or eight pound straight pein.  He has some good videos using it making 3# cross peins.  He also swings it like it was a two # hammer.

[matto]

Slag my dad is still alive he is the mister I'm just matto

[SLAG]

Got it!

He IS the Mister, and you are the Matto.

Sorrreee.

SLAG

[matto]

No problem funny thing is he doesn't like to be called Mr. either.  But i tell him he has to because he is older and grandpa O is gone.

[Dom]

On 9/21/2016 at 5:53 PM, rockstar.esq said:

It occurred to me today that although I've seen a lot of hammer heads, I can't recall seeing a cross pein where the pein was offset to the top of the head like the claws on a framing hammer.

Here ya go...

[rthibeau]

Swedefiddle asked what about the Colour?? or Color???   I personally have some purple hammers and one pink one.