Avadon Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I'm trying to make a quench tank for tridents and it's posing to be a problem. The weapon is 3 tines in a flat configuration. I thought about a big round piece of pipe in the 12" to 16" but there is so much useless space of cold oil to heat up. So I moved on to trying to find a 14" x 3" piece of rectangular tubing that is 4' feet tall. In order to get that piece steel yard wants me to buy a 20' long piece for massive $$$ amount of money. I may have to weld the tank up from angle iron and flat plate, which is a huge project obviously. I looked at some wide U-channel that was 15" wide and the height was 3.5" so if I welded it together I'd get at 15" wide by 7" tall tank.. TOO BIG! So my question is should I just weld up a custom tank and is 3" wide enough or is it too wide for a trident. I'd be at 168sq inches of volume. Previous user told me I should be around 5 gallons in my quench. Is that right? There are 231 cubic inches in a gallon so does that mean this tank is not even a gallon or is my math way off. If anyone can help steer me to the perfect tank for this application that would be helpful. Also since I'm probably going to have to scratch build this is it more advantageous to use stainless or aluminum than steel? this image is what the proportions roughly look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dks119 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 check military surplus ammo boxes. can't remember the designation but i'm using one maybe 6"wx14"Lx32'T with removable sealed lid. available several places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Unless you're going to be making a lot of these, welded-up angle iron and sheet seems like a lot of work and material. Would sheet metal with an external wood frame and a lot of silicone caulk work? 1 hour ago, dks119 said: [...] i'm using one maybe 6"wx14"Lx32'T [...] 32 feet tall? That's a 140 gallon quench tank! 32 inches, on the other hand, gives a tank just under 12 gallons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I couldn't see the image you posted, but it sounds like you might be going overkill on this thing. All you need is something that will hold oil to the depth and width (plus a little) you want to harden the tines and possibly part of the shaft. Just off the top of my head, you might be able to get a large muffler with close to the right dimensions. Obviously you'd have to cut one end off, take out the internal stuff, and block the exhaust port on the remaining end, but that should be a much cheaper option if you can find one large enough and you should be able to tack weld it to something for a base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 How much do you really need to quench? I would think the barbs and a bit back and the rest of it would be *better* normalized---so a quench trough rather than a tank. Piece of pipe with a bit taken off the top to provide a slot. Weld on square end caps so it sits stable on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Would a garden hose, with the water running at maximum rate, work? Or, better yet two hoses. Or pour one or more pails of water on it. Those methods would require ready access to the outdoors Or a large sturdy garbage can filled with water A purposed built jig is better if you are going to make many forks. It would justify the storage space in your smithy. Just a thought. Regards, SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Hardening the whole trident is a dangerously bad thing, you want flex in the shaft not hard. The tips and barbs need hard and the tines need springy. Look into a 15gl. grease barrel from a auto shop. It's what I use with 5gl. of fryer oil from the local supermarket's lunch counter I was hoping for oil from the doughnut fryer but a quench smells like old egg rolls instead. <sigh> Another benefit of a grease barrel is the snap on lid, it keeps stray dogs from eating your quenchant if you use fryer oil, but more importantly makes good fire control. If the barrel lights up you can just drop the lid on and smother it out. I also have my quench tank in a cut down 55gl. drum in case of a boil over. I don't have enough oil in the tank for this to be a danger but I may want to increase the quenchant. It's also a good place to let a quenched piece drip dry and NOT get oil on the shop floor. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Frosty, Thanks for the information. My suggestion was a dud. I tried. Sorry, SLAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Not really a dud Slag, the idea only needs some tweaking, say a wading pool or a plastic tub sled to contain enough water and stand offs to keep the piece from melting the plastic. On the other hand a trident doesn't need to be hard anywhere other than the points and barbs so a torch and hose would probably be fine. Depends on the steel of course. I'd go with coil spring, you can water quench it for this kind of use well enough, it's not like a knife or sword. Heck, I don't know why you'd need to harden a trident that size anyway, it's not like you spear fish marlin or shark and especially not with a theatrical size trident. We made fish gigs in high school maybe 4" wide with tines around 4"-5" long and I took dolphin with one on a couple occasions, no NOT flipper the fish, think Mahi Mahi. Those were just 1/4" cold rolled rd. And yes there was forging involved just not like folk here think and the barbs were wicked, a catch never got off. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Speaking of big tridents.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, JHCC said: Speaking of big tridents.... It's a beauty, Owen did a splendid job. I don't believe t's heat treated though, it's a display piece not a user. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Having made more than a couple throwing spears I have learned that *tough* is more important than hard and over time someone *will* hit something they shouldn't and need to straighten them. (after a number of straightenings you really should demount the spear point and re-heat treat it to deal with work hardening it) Remember the forging the harpoon scene in Moby Dick: forging the shaft from horse shoe nails (mild wrought iron) welded into rods and the rods twisted but the High Carbon stuff (straight razors) were only for the point/barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Just now, ThomasPowers said: Remember the forging the harpoon scene in Moby Dick: forging the shaft from horse shoe nails (mild wrought iron) welded into rods and the rods twisted but the High Carbon stuff (straight razors) were only for the point/barb True, but the quenchant used in that scene is hard to obtain in usable quantities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Blood? We used to go get it by the gallons at the slaughterhouse to make blood bait for catfish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Just now, ThomasPowers said: Blood? We used to go get it by the gallons at the slaughterhouse to make blood bait for catfish... Harpooner's blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Can you tell the difference by taste? The steel can't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 4 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: Can you tell the difference by taste? The steel can't! How do you know? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Well I have to take blood samples several times a day and tend to lick off what's left AND I line rare steaks---that's my story and it's sticking to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 12 hours ago, dks119 said: check military surplus ammo boxes. can't remember the designation but i'm using one maybe 6"wx14"Lx32'T with removable sealed lid. available several places. I have a vertical ammo box but didn't know they made them this big. I can check around for one that wide. Mine is something like 10" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Well I have to take blood samples several times a day and tend to lick off what's left AND I line rare steaks---that's my story and it's sticking to me! Are you a harpooner among your other many talents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 11 hours ago, JHCC said: Unless you're going to be making a lot of these, welded-up angle iron and sheet seems like a lot of work and material. Would sheet metal with an external wood frame and a lot of silicone caulk work? 32 feet tall? That's a 140 gallon quench tank! 32 inches, on the other hand, gives a tank just under 12 gallons. I plan on making many, many of these.. at least a dozen. yes my ' should have been a " about 3-4 feet tall is all I need. 7 hours ago, Buzzkill said: I couldn't see the image you posted, but it sounds like you might be going overkill on this thing. All you need is something that will hold oil to the depth and width (plus a little) you want to harden the tines and possibly part of the shaft. Just off the top of my head, you might be able to get a large muffler with close to the right dimensions. Obviously you'd have to cut one end off, take out the internal stuff, and block the exhaust port on the remaining end, but that should be a much cheaper option if you can find one large enough and you should be able to tack weld it to something for a base. That is not a bad idea at all. I have access to a junk yard and could probably get a wide muffler. Is cooling a trident horizontally or vertically better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 5 hours ago, JHCC said: Speaking of big tridents.... WOW That is impressive!!! Is it better to have a conical opening for the shaft or have a spline of metal between pieces of wood? Or is there just numerous ways to do this? For example on the right right the Marteau De Lucerne it has strapping that goes over the exterior of the pole? There must be an inner tang too right by which all three pieces (two outside and one inside) are all bolted together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: Well I have to take blood samples several times a day and tend to lick off what's left AND I line rare steaks---that's my story and it's sticking to me! I test too but I'm still wondering how you know the steel can't tell the difference by taste. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 you've never talked with it? Oh My! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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