Frosty Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 If it's small enough you can simply slip a hex bolt in and mark alternating points. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 Yes; I still use a compass for burner portal pipes though. De bigger be better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 You might see if you can find a REALLY handy little gizmo Dad left me. It's called a PI tape, wrap it around a round object and where the end crosses the tape you can read the diameter, flip it over and the area is indicated. You can of course use it to section rounds as well. The one I inherited is only good to 1/2" but it's really a trick thing to have handy, MUCH faster than a calculator ad you don't have to mess with ciphering those icky formula things. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Instead of formulas, I use The Rule of Thumb. Formulas make my head hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 21, 2020 Author Share Posted July 21, 2020 Three things that older guys "on the job" taught me was: One, The boss never thinks it was fast enough; two, one aw shucks overturns 1000 "atta boys"; and three, Quick math breeds mistakes. It as simple as one two three; avoid math to survive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 You guys should have said something about this sooner. This is what I was playing with last night. I think I'm in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Oh THANK YOU so very much! Here I open your post expecting a burner update or something similarly juicy to talk about and you give me a headache instead! Arghhhh! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 My apologies. Nothing too juicy over here. We have turned the experimenting towards forge design and kast-o-lite handling. I am excited about it but I am excited by different kinds of mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 I'd love for you to go into those forges, since this is the time of year that most people have finished there burner, and are a lot more interested in building its forge, but the discussion would maybe fit better in the forges 101 thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I sure can. Anything in particular? I probably don't have anything new to add to the conversation. I am a fan of the flat wide floor. I've seen the shape called lozenge but I picture a rhombus with that description. I've also seen rounded rectangle or round end rectangle. Whatever it's called, I like it. I have been forging with a 50in³ forge lately. When we first made it, I thought it was a cute little guy. I decided to push it and I am amazed by some of the things I have managed to forge with it. Some stuff I would not have been able to pull of with my old 150 in³ freon cylinder forge. The propane seems to go on forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 What are you making the molds from? I'm really up for a better way to mold Kastolite 30 or heck any castable refractory. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 On 7/21/2020 at 6:04 PM, Another FrankenBurner said: My apologies. Nothing too juicy over here. We have turned the experimenting towards forge design and kast-o-lite handling. I am excited about it but I am excited by different kinds of mud. This is very interesting to me. would love to hear what you come up with. very cool design, I LOVE little forges! I once made a 2" hammer in a forge with a 2-1/4" bore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 If you're willing to do that much work, a how-to on constructing that forge would be find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Buck Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) Been metalworking a screen for months. Got a forge body, ran into shipping charges on supplies and just couldn't pull the trigger on paying a 30% premium just to get my stuff. Anyway, a guy advertised an NC anvil, leg vice (complete, no welds) a gas forge, hardy tools and some other stuff. I went to look, he kept throwing in tools he made, hammers he made and bought, files, steel... I didn't even ask if he could do better. Even though as we were carrying it to the van he ask if I was interested! (xxxx conscience) So, he made the forge (It has a Frosty T) but, nothing over the kaowool. It's been used a good bit, but I'm not comfortable with that, even though I ran it to forge an ugly leaf hook. (Had to play) Can I coat it with kast-o-lite after it's been used. Or should I just rip the insulation out and start over? He also gave me enough wool to redo it. Of course this mean I will pony up the money for materials now! (No, i don't understand me either) Help for a tight, schizophrenic! Edited July 26, 2020 by Mod30 language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 26, 2020 Author Share Posted July 26, 2020 Yes. Don't rip out the old insulation unless it is falling apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 26, 2020 Author Share Posted July 26, 2020 Why Small High-speed Burners? Why construct small burners at all? Few people desire a miniature forge or furnace. But there are plenty of people who want to get more concentrated heat from air-fuel torches. More concentrated? Yes; you need look no further than a $5 blue flame lighter to realize that much better flame management is possible than is being offered. With rising fuel prices, people are looking to maximize efficiency. Naturally aspirated burners have large turn-down ranges. So, it might seem that a wide selection of burner sizes isn’t needed. But heat management is about more than how well fuel burns. There is another factor to control; that’s equipment atmosphere. It’s easy to see what goes wrong when a forge or furnace receives too much, too little, or too weak flame; it is harder to discern what goes right, with good control of the flame’s exhaust path. Efficiency requires balancing conflicting objectives; they are flame and exhaust speeds. Fast flames burn hot, but a fast exhaust wastes heat. The reason burners, whenever possible, are aimed on a tangent, is to cause their combustion gasses to swirl around equipment interiors; creating a longer distance from burner flame to exhaust opening. A long exhaust path increases the amount of "hang time” for heat to be deposited on equipment interiors. That seems obvious doesn't it? What isn't so clear is that most of that increased time isn't gained by hot gases blowing farther at a given velocity; it’s provided through a considerable drop in velocity over that added distance. Small flames decelerate faster than large flames. The smaller flames of a pair of 1/2" burners will burn the same amount of fuel as a single 3/4” size, but will drop velocity much faster in a five-gallon forge, greatly increasing efficiency; because they can be made faster/hotter without creating a tongue of fire out the exhaust port. But, what about people who want to build a two-gallon forge? They will need two 3/8" burners to do the same trick. Someone who wants to forge hand tools in a one-gallon paint-can or three Lb. coffee-can forge is going to need two 1/4" burners to run it proficiently; these same figures hold true in casting furnaces. The law of diminishing returns makes maximum fuel savings a lessor issue in miniature equipment, but heating time and portability remain significant advantages. Portability? Yes; miniature equipment can hardly be considered portable, when fed from a five-gallon fuel cylinder! But don’t multiple flame burners (ex. Ribbon burners) take deceleration further? Yup; they sure do. Unfortunately, these burners themselves tend to be on the large side. In time compact ribbon burner designs willt be perfected; first there has to be more interest in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Buck Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 Thanks Mikey. I didn't want to waste kast-o-lite or wool. Guess I'll get with Glenn about supplies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jealdi Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 How thin can you go on the shell? I don't have a lot by way of tools, but I can get some 22G or 16G sheet metal at the local big box store for less than $10/sheet. Is that too thin if you are doing 2 or 3 inches of kaowool, kastolite, and plistix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 16g. makes a nice shell, especially if you're screwing or riveting it. Just make any tabs connected to it a little larger to distribute forces so it doesn't deform the shell. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 And there you go again, presenting us with another very tempting rabbit hole, Frosty I have spent years carefully avoiding the subject of all the various ways to hook a section of pipe on a thin rounded shell, like say, a coffee can, I did it once for the book, by outlining the opening on the end of the pipe with ink, and then cutting in tab shaped extensions and bending them at right angles. Drilling somewhat oversize holes in the tabs, inserting the pipe, and inking the tab holes on the inside surface of the shell, and then drilling screw holes in the shell from the inside, allows you to reinsert the pipe; then run screws from the outside. This method is more work to describe than to do, and allows newbies to end up with a smooth mounting with little skill. bending a brass fitting works for lots of guys,; others feel intimidated by it. Your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 I don't get bending a brass fitting. Are you talking about a fitting bent up from brass or bending a brass fitting? An easy burner mount is a length of sheet bent like angle iron, the precise angle isn't too important, the flange width close to the OD of the burner is plenty. Snip in the angle an inch or two from an end for tabs. Bend the tabs out and drill for screws, rivets, etc. The burner clamps in the cradle and the tabs being at 90* +/- from each other distribute flex forces nicely. A hose clamp or twisted wire will keep the burner from moving, especially if you measure so the burner rests against the top of the mount. This is a nice way to mount a burner, as it's easy to remove it to tinker and nozzles don't make contact so you can experiment with different ones. Fast easy flexible. Hmmm? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Re Thin Shells: I saw a professional blacksmith that needed a LARGE forge for a project and had made one by just bending the kaowool around in a circle and holding it in place with baling wire. Is that thin enough for you? I sure hope he treated it inside and out! My propane forge is made from a section of Oxy cylinder. Excessively heavy and very handy for welding fixtures too---I have a sliding third arm on either side so I can run it out in front and back at the same time for long pieces being heated in the middle. (Small sq tubing welded to the shell with an L shaped piece of sq stock that fits in side---just enough slop that it jams when in use and you can rotate it slightly up and slide it easily---wish I could say that I did that on purpose; but it was a happy accident.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 On 7/23/2020 at 10:49 AM, Frosty said: What are you making the molds from? I'm really up for a better way to mold Kastolite 30 or heck any castable refractory. Originally our molds were hot wire cut blue foam. It makes a great mold that it is water proof and can be easily removed with a hand torch. We are currently using 3D printed molds for forge pieces and nozzles. On 7/23/2020 at 12:25 PM, teenylittlemetalguy said: I once made a 2" hammer in a forge with a 2-1/4" bore... This is very cool. I am picking larger and larger projects to see what I get away with in the mini forges. On 7/23/2020 at 1:02 PM, Mikey98118 said: If you're willing to do that much work, a how-to on constructing that forge would be find. I plan on doing this. It's probably a bit premature at this point. We are still experimenting with forge design to prevent cracking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 I made a quicky forge with Kaowool and chicken wire for a large project. No, I didn't rigidize it, at the time we all were going by the manufacturer and MSDS reports regarding handling and safety. Single use, outdoors, completely off the current safety radar, didn't wear a dust mask even. Cut rolled and wired. Used it for maybe 4 hours and put it in a corner of the shop. More recently, it and all my Kaowool is in garbage bags. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Another FrankenBurner said: I plan on doing this. It's probably a bit premature at this point. We are still experimenting with forge design to prevent cracking. Have you considered writing a book? You have plenty of material to give the text scope, and 3D printing is here to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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