BEZERK Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Hey im BEZERK from Australia and am new and needing help with setting up n getting going ... Mainly just want to make medieval weapons n japanese knives .. mainly weapons n tools what types are steel are best n what equip besides the obvious do i need Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Russell Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 BEZERK , where abouts in OZ are you ? Have you contacted your local smithing group's ? Dale Russell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Have you read the knife section on IForgeIron yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 It depends on the tools and weapons; it depends on what alloys you can source and work and heat treat. It depends on if you are trying to make highly authentic reproductions or just ones that look similar, it depends on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEZERK Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 @Dale Russell live in northern nsw , @Glenn no i just started a profile & @ThomasPowers i want to make the real deal like back in the day legit not these fake replica things that just hang on a wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Well, a while ago one of our resident world acclaimed master bladesmiths answered the question about how long it took to make his first sword. His answer was, "about 15 years." If you want to make real blades rather than wall hangers you have some learning to do. How do I know you have a ways to go? You're asking typical of guys breaking into the craft fresh. Right now you don't even know what questions to ask and I can pretty well guarantee you wouldn't understand the answers if we can guess the question. For example you ask the beginner standard question. "Whats the BEST metal for. . . " for what? Wheel weights, rocket engine nozzles, frying pans, etc.? Japanese knives and tools. ANY idea how many radically different kinds of knives the Japanese make? Your questions can't be answered in a meaningful manner it just isn't possible unless we want to spend our time wheedling the specifics out of you. I'm not trying to put you off I just don't want another beginner setting himself up for failure and giving up before he has a chance to find out if he even has a talent for the craft. Iforge has literally tens of thousands of pages of archived posts from some of the best blacksmiths on earth they're all organized by topic so don't think Im suggesting you read ALL of Iforge before we'll help you. There is the bladesmithing section, a BUNCH of tool use and making sections, lots of tools don't you know. anyway, I strongly suggest you pull up a chair, something to drink and a snack, pick a section of interest to you and do some reading. It's not going to teach you to be a bladesmith but it'll give you a handle on what's up, how to ask good questions, what a good question is even and best of all understand the answers. If you're going to forge blades I recommend you learn blacksmithing before you take up bladesmithing so you're not trying to learn several skill sets at the same time. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 So you are looking at bloomery wrought iron and bloomery wrought iron derived steels Huge learning curve and you will be making things inferior to what you could do far easier and cheaper using modern materials! GOOD! I strongly approve. I'd start practicing on any real wrought iron you can source but the end goal will require you running your own bloomery. You might want to look into reading pretty much anything by Alan Williams. "The Knight and the Blast Furnace" is 900+ large pages of info on the metallurgy of renaissance armour; but there are a lot of journal articles that will be easier to find on the net. Also "the Metallograpy of Early Ferrous Edge Tools and Edged Weapons" Tylecote and Gilmour (It's a BAR publication and so may be accessible in Australia) A bit early but I enjoyed "The Celtic Sword" Radomir Pleiner for the information on the ferrous metallography of such weapons. Meanwhile I like Alexander Weygers "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" as a starting book. The COSIRA manuals are available on the web to be downloaded and you will need to be quite familiar with "The Complete Bladesmith, The Master Bladesmith and the Pattern Welded Blade all 3 by James Hrisoulas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEZERK Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Thanx blokes i know i got along way to go n will always learn things everyday but like my prospecting n making moonshine i like to do it like the ol timers im not trying to make $$ or start a company lol i just wanna have a great hobby to go along with mu others Oh n is a cast anvil anygood for what i wanna do or will it break as some say a farriers anvils no good n that i need a forged steel but thats 1400$ australian so is that just a waste of $$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Depends on the farrier anvil, both of mine are ductile iron and have about 60% rebound. I have a little one sands horn and heal that has 1/4" steel face and a cast body with 80% rebound, a piece of 2"square, a piece of 4" square, a 10# sledge, a 1 1/2 rig pin, a 12" section of rail and pieces to build some small anvils and bicks. All work for anvils. But as to a China mart cast London pattern door stop? No good, find a cobble stone... Make it out Perth way, say hi to Marc Lachance, Ferndale way for me, not a smith but an American expat and one of my best friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEZERK Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said: Depends on the farrier anvil, bothe of mine are ductile iron and have about 60% rebound. I have a little one sands horn and heal that has 1/4" steel face and a cast body with 80% rebound, a peice of 2"square, a peice of 4" square, a 10# sledge, a 1 1/2 rig pin, a 12" section of rail and peices to build some small anvils and bicks. All work for anvils. But as to a China mart cast London pattern door stop? No good, find a cobble stone... Make it out Perth way, say hi to Marc Lachance, Ferndale way for me, not a smith but an American expat and one of my best friends. Thanx mate for the tip n perth is a bit far its on the other side of the country ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 That's why the "if" lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Ahh note that the london pattern anvil is way out of the medieval/renaissance period. I strongly suggest you look at medieval/renaissance anvils and build one of those---which can be as simple as getting a large rectangular solid of steel at scrap rate. Look at the anvil used by the japanese sword smith in the old National Geographic "Living Treasures of Japan" show---It can be found on youtube in chunks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEZERK Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 Gday was just wondering what SUP9 high chromium is like to make knives n swords with its 6mm n 70mm wide n do i have to heat treat or would this have been done when it was turned into plate ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Sup9 is similar to 5160 in chemical composition (a little more chromium). It would make a tough blade I'm sure. As far as anvils go, cast iron ones are boat anchors. A farriers anvil is made for light work, if you are planning on heavy forging those anvils aren't going to hold up. Just like matching the steel to the blade your tools will need to match too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 2 hours ago, BEZERK said: Gday was just wondering what SUP9 high chromium is like to make knives n swords with its 6mm n 70mm wide n do i have to heat treat or would this have been done when it was turned into plate ?? apparently he has not paid attention to the replies already made, and wants to dive in anyway. but at our expense? Could someone explain why anyone should waist more time posting to him ? We get grouchy because we honestly try to help and have to deal with trolls and children geting in the way of real smithing students, I am not sure which this one is, but I dont care for now. Why not make a sword of it and see ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Steve, if every first grade teacher who'd been at it 30 years expected her new kids to know what the prier classes had learned she wouldn't be a good teacher would she? Some folk are so new that even navigating around this site is a daunting task. It doesn't help when you have all those yay hoo's on youtube and other places making it look so easy and feeding bad info. I give folk the benefit of the doubt until it shows that they are just dreamers and wanna be's. I'd never heard of that steel, so I looked it up (I was curious, ok ). If I have time to do that I can reply. I'll let the forges fire clean out those who can't handle it, it doesn't take long. He'll learn soon enough that swords aren't knives, and it isn't near as romantic as books and movies make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Be Grease Fitting: "do i have to heat treat or would this have been done when it was turned into plate ?? " YES, NO, MAYBE depending on information you did not provide on sourcing it and working it; but most likely yes! This question is a lot like "hey if I buy a used pickup will I have to replace the engine?" Kind of hard to give a good answer to that without knowing the details... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEZERK Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share Posted July 4, 2016 Thank you kindly im only new and no body at all does anything like this so even engineers were unsure and @Steve Sells did u know everything when started?? im only new and asking for help as im learning on my own !!! It might be a stupid question for you but the old saying goes"NOTHIN SAID NOTHIN KNOWN!!! i hope one day when u are unsure about something that someone will be kind to show you as opposed to being judgemental And as for my anvil i have an old piece of rail track converted to a anvil As i said b4 no one does anything like this in my area as living in a small rural town has its drawbacks !! 3 hours ago, Steve Sells said: apparently he has not paid attention to the replies already made, and wants to dive in anyway. but at our expense? Could someone explain why anyone should waist more time posting to him ? We get grouchy because we honestly try to help and have to deal with trolls and children geting in the way of real smithing students, I am not sure which this one is, but I dont care for now. Why not make a sword of it and see ? If you dont care for now then why waste your time replying ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 You were advised to read a few things, and clearly you did not. This statement is proven by your latest post. er cant help you when you refuse to read the suggested information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 On 6/7/2016 at 8:12 PM, BEZERK said: Mainly just want to make medieval weapons n Japanese knives .. i want to make the real deal like back in the day legit not these fake replica things that just hang on a wall Thomas Powers So you are looking at bloomery wrought iron and bloomery wrought iron derived steels Huge learning curve and you will be making things inferior to what you could do far easier and cheaper using modern materials! GOOD! I strongly approve. I'd start practicing on any real wrought iron you can source but the end goal will require you running your own bloomery. Bezerk was just wondering what SUP9 high chromium is like to make knives n swords Bezerk, please READ the material that has already been written. It will answer many of your questions. References have been made to specific discussions. The best advice that could be given by anyone is to find a class and pay the teacher to expose you to the knowledge, skill, and expertise they have gathered from many years of their research, trying, and making mistakes. They can quickly guide you away from the common failures and toward success. Too far to travel, or other limitations keeping you from the classes? Then read EVERYTHING you can find on the subject of interest. Many classes are available on DVD or other media, Buy the information and have it shipped to you. If someone makes a reference to a book, then buy the book and read it. Be sure and take the knowledge you acquire to the forge and test it. The hammer time you invest proves the knowledge right or not right. You will learn best by doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 As has been said many times here "I want to make a sword but don't know anything about smithing" translates closely to "I want to win Formula 1 races but don't know how to drive." Not a problem *IFF* (and yes IFF) you are willing to start and put the effort and learning and experience into it. Asking if a certain alloy would make a good sword basically indicates that you don't know enough to make one correctly otherwise you could evaluate it. Now the fastest way to make good blades is to learn the basics first so you are not making basic mistakes when you get into forging and working more difficult alloys. Of course I differentiate between making "shivs" and making good knives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Perhaps a few years of real world experience will teach you some of the rude facts of life. Nothing worth having is free, nothing worth doing is easy. One world renowned bladesmith was asked how long it took him to make his first sword IIRC he answered, 15 years. He learned blacksmithing, then bladesmithing and once he mastered making blade he studied making swords and from a more mature attitude than yours the process took him about 15 years to make a functional sword. I know you're sick of hearing this but you're suffering what we all did as kids, you don't REALLY KNOW much of anything. You have to have a decent base of knowledge to even know how ignorant you are and believe me you know diddly about smithing let alone bladesmithing. Here's a bit of worldly experience for you. No matter what you THINK, you are going to have to take entry level jobs, learn, sweat and earn your way to better positions. You don't join the football squad and take the quarterback position. Nobody here is being mean to you, nobody is withholding information but nobody here is going to read it to you either. You have years of study and practice ahead of you IF you really want to forge "real" swords, YEARS. Whining because someone tells you like it is isn't going to get you ANYWHERE. Nope, nada, zippo. If you think being told to do your own work is harsh then you obviously don't have any experience at the anvil. You think WE are harsh? Wait till you find out how much steel cares about your feelings. That's it, fire, steel, tools and YOU. Everything but YOU is just refined dirt and cares about YOU as much as any dirt does. If you want to tame it it's up to YOU, not us, YOU. The information is out there and it's been pointed out to you. YOU didn't have to do the years of reading to find it so you're that far ahead of us in the pursuit. Unfortunately if you only have ideas and don't know let alone have a plan then . . . Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEZERK Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share Posted July 4, 2016 On 7/4/2016 at 9:31 AM, Steve Sells said: You were advised to read a few things, and clearly you did not. This statement is proven by your latest post. I did read the posts but i couldnt get iron but got a good deal on the sup9 so i bought that n dont tell me what i did n didnt read infact dont reply to anything coz it seems to me your more of a troublemaker as opposed to helping you are done posting for a while, and this thread is now closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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