Mbmul175 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Hi guys, the other day on an auction I got 2 boxes of oldmanemu suspension springs for 50ZAR ( that's about 4 USD ) , I read that spring steel works differently, so I don't wanvto start on those and just end up o wasting them How does spring steel forging differ from mind steel. Is the heat treating process the same ? Thanks for any advice Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The heat treating is what makes it a spring, or something else. For example 1095 can be heat treated to be dead soft, brittle hard, or a spring. Do you have any way of contacting the manufacturer? If you cannot find out exactly what alloy it is, all you can do is some experiments with small pieces to see how it reacts to different circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbmul175 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 I'll see if I can find out what alloy I is, if not, then I'll just go at it and see what I get, Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 8 hours ago, Mbmul175 said: How does spring steel forging differ from mind steel. Is the heat treating process the same ? yes it is different, mild steel you cant really heat treat. you will also want to work it at higher temps compared to mild. once it gets cold it gets hard, unlike mild which you can work all the way down to a black heat, coil spring (typically is around 5160) you can if your plannishing, but it should be lighter blows-your not trying to forge it just planish it. about what's the diameter of the springs? Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbmul175 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 3 hours ago, littleblacksmith said: about what's the diameter of the springs? Littleblacksmith The entire spring or the bar that the spring is made of ? They are at my shop, so I'll measure them in the morning What is planishing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Spring steels are generally tougher under the hammer and will also burn at a lower temperature than mild steel so you need to watch the forging range more closely, (they can crack when forged too cold as well) Cover your slack tub if you have one to avoid the temptation of cooling it in water! It also can be accidentally quenched in a vise or laying on an anvil especially if the weather is cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbmul175 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 So what youre saying is 1: no quenching 2: heat errything that will touch it 3: keep hot, not too hot Can i grind it normally or is it also different? Will I be able to forge a blade out if spring steel or is that not a good idea ? Thanks for the help Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 "spring steel" is a job description not an alloy specification. I have even run into *1* automobile leaf spring that was a strain hardened low carbon steel and would not quench harden. (That's 1 in 35 years smithing; but....) I don't preheat everything save in winter when warming the anvil and postvise with a slab of heated steel helps extend working time as well as protect from unexpected quenching. Only time I quench is heat treating, otherwise I normalize. Keep it in the correct forging range---spot on! Many spring steel alloys are good for heavy duty blades taking flex and impact (swords or machetes for example) Their edge holding is not as good as high alloy blades that have all those carbide formers in them; but depending on your personal preferences it may be better or worse as a blade. Personally I prefer tougher blades over harder ones save for specialized uses like straight razors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbmul175 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 Yusss, I was eyeing on making some straight razors with them, so that's awesome to hear , 7x thumbs up ! Any special tecneaques I should consider for straight razors ? Thanks a million Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarkNebulah Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 TP said that they wouldn't be good for straight razors. They are more specialized for taking a beating than being really sharp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 For straight razors consult an expert on them! We've had one or two post here before...Last time I shaved was about 15 years ago for a job interview; got it, didn't shave for my current job's interview and got that so my interest in razors is more of bladesmithing curiosity... Razors are more of an extremely fine edge and noted for it's being delicate; many spring alloys would not be a good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbmul175 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 Oh, I misread your "save for" as an " except for "... I like curiosities. I also have shaved sincs my school days ( given I finished last year ) ... I have a buddy who is a beard enthusiast / hair dresser, so he'd go nuts for them. but if I can't, then I shan't . Will spring steel be okay for chisels and punches ? Thanks for the info Michael. While on this topic, will key steel hold up a fine edge or also not ?( I don't know any other names for it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stash Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Spring steel should be fine for chisels and punches. I use a known 5160, and just normalize. Suits my purposes for use in hot work. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 if English is not your first language it is very easy to make a mistake with it so dont worry, you are doing very well understanding people here. pre heating anvils is more important in colder areas so the work does not cool too fast, here it is summer and the temp tonite is 4 degrees c, tomorrow it may get to 14 degrees c yes spring is often used here for punches and drifts and other things, today I have been cutting up some fork lift forks to make a vise, they are also a spring steel like 4140. key steel here is just cold rolled, ground flat stock and silver steel are tool steels and should be good for keeping edges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevan Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Where in south africa are you situated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbmul175 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 My home language is Afrikaans, by I'm fluent in English, that save for is more of an regional thing, like how people in different parts of my country call the same tools different names , like I have had 6 totally different screws that people call pozzies ... So key steel is bad for blades? We get up to 50°c in the summer, so I can just leave the metal out in the sun to forge it . Were in autumn now and get about 15-25°c, will I be nessecary to heat the anvil and vice ? Thanks Michael. I live in the breerivier western-cape, about 20km from Worcester and 30km from Ceres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 here we have americans who think they speak english and even in england there are many regional variations, there are several members in africa on this forum and some may be near you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbmul175 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 That is very true, regional language ruins a traviler's day ... I'm trying to find out where in south Africa people are situated so I can maybe see how someone else works , but I've come up empty so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 If key steel is the steel used to make keys (example woodruff key) used in machinery in pulleys and shafts then it is not a good blade steel as generally you want the key to fail and shear rather than the pulley or shaft to be messed up. I found examples of 8630 and 1035 keys neither of which is a high carbon steel. Hottest it's been here is 44.5 degC and we had only a week straight of it for a daytime high. You probably don't need to preheat if you are careful not to do something like leave a thin piece of hot blade steel in a tightened vise. Another problem we have is a lot of people here speak American instead of English Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 dont know the others but this guy may be able to help you more locally than us http://www.iforgeiron.com/profile/13949-ianinsa/ ians profile says "At the Castle, Kyalami,JHB. South Africa" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I would be more worried about building a forge, rather than un controlled heating with a torch. You can worry about learning steel grades after you learn to forge. You are getting the cart a bit ahead of the horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 5 hours ago, Mbmul175 said: The entire spring or the bar that the spring is made of ? They are at my shop, so I'll measure them in the morning What is planishing ? I was meaning the thickness of the actual bar. planishing is basically when you take out your hammer marks using lighter blows at a lower heat (a dull red or black heat) and smooth it out. That was a definition that I came up with in my head, if I forgot to mention something let me now. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbmul175 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Share Posted May 26, 2016 I'm busy with a small forge, I already have the plans and everything, I just need to wait till the 6th when I go on vacation, then I can build it. Kyalami is about 1200miles away from where I am, but its closer than most other people on this forum , lol Thanks Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbmul175 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Share Posted May 26, 2016 8 hours ago, littleblacksmith said: I was meaning the thickness of the actual bar. Littleblacksmith I measured and they are 16.3 mm wide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 5 hours ago, Mbmul175 said: 16.3 that's a pretty good size. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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