Dunk_c Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Hi, new anvil owner, first time poster. Hi everyone. Just picked up old Wilkinson anvil, weighs about 91lbs. I am replacing a rail track anvil that was used to bash the old thing. New anvil going to increase my ability to make small wrought items and I built a 1.5 brick propane forge. The anvil has a blunted bick and a section of broken face as shown in the photos. While It is going to be a tool and not a showpiece, ans I am aure that I can wotk around these blemishes, I would like to clean it up but without risking any damage or future resale value. I expect it is OK to file the bick back to shape. Without resorting to welding the face, has anyone got any comment on rounding over the cracked edge to form a smooth bending area, or chamfering the chipped area the create a flat chamfer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 13 minutes ago, Dunk_c said: New anvil going to increase my ability to make small wrought items. The anvil has a blunted bick and a section of broken face, I would like to clean it up but without risking any damage or future resale value. Use the anvil for a year and then decide if you want to make changes based on what you can not accomplish the way it is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunk_c Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 Thanks, sage words no doubt What about preventing futher damage in this area ? Do people clean of the rust and dirt and apply some wax, or is that also "destructive"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Just a wire brush, either by hand or with an electric grinder with a wire brush. Then a coat of oil, wax to keep rust from forming. There appears to be plenty of workable area and edges other than the small damaged area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunk_c Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 Well, here we go. Quick rub down and some soft wax and placed in its home. Just need a slightly higher stump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunk_c Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 Checked rebound all around and was aware of possible delamination, but everything tested OK. Been hunting for ages for a real anvil that was not being sold at antique heirloom prices. Anvils at reasonable prices are hard to come by in Australia. So when I saw this, as long as it was sound, I was keen to go and take a look. Nice manageable size, and I won't be fixing truck leafs srings so will do me for some time until I want/need to spend more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Hard to ruin an anvil by neglect though surprisingly easy to ruin one by abuse. I have one anvil that was stored in an unheated shed in a swampy area for 50 years that had face pitting from condensation rusting on it. I wired wheeled off the loose rust and started forging on it and the sweet spot is nearly polished bright and smooth now. Luckily often even abused anvils have a huge amount of life left in them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Welcome aboard Dunk glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many IfI blokes live down under, heck some might even be within visiting distance. You are aware the section of the face towards the tail of the chipped out area is failing. If you use that bit it's likely to chip off and you do NOT want to be inline of a piece of shipping hard steel. You can do a lot to re-point the horn by simply using it. You can forge the swelling back down with patience. If you need a sharp pointy tool make a bicern that fits the hardy hole. Same if you need a sharp square edge, weld a shank to the SIDE of a piece of steel that suits and viola "perfect" edges! Welding the shank on the side of bottom tools allows you to do the striking closer to the sweet spot in the center of the face rather than over the hardy hole. It's not only more effective due to the depth of steel under the blow but it's less risk to the anvil. Grinding a radius on chipped edges is perfectly acceptable, it's pretty necessary to forge shoulders without making cold shuts on the inside corner. I wouldn't try grinding out the large chips till you've used that old lady a while, a year or two isn't unreasonable. You can always grind something off an anvil putting it back is something else again. Like Glenn says making permanent mods to tools should wait till you know if you really need to. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunk_c Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 Thanks Frosty, i did file off the mushroomed end of the horn and blended it into a continuous profile. Lost the nice patian but I want a tool and not a showpiece? Might have been hard to fit the nose into my micro forge it is such a joy finally owining one, and one that is over a hundred years old I am guessing. Got a couple of good books and found some freebies on a UK college site. Picked up a pair of tongs to go with the vice grips, scrounged around the internet for some hammers, just short some old steel - starting to regret throwing out all those car axles,torsion bars, shock absorbers and broken hammers, over the years. I think I can start making some mid-size tongs to start with. Have been looking at hardy tools, punches and drifts as these seem to be relatively small and simple and I can start to try hardening techniques. Are hot cut off hardies and others also efegctive when offset to the bulkier part of the anvil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 If you get a chance some morning your time X out the Chat room on here, there are a number of fellows from Australia on there most nights my time mornings your time. they are extremely knowledgeable and long time Blacksmiths and very free with help and advise and friendly. They can direct you to other people & events. There are instructions at the first post to get on the chat sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunk_c Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 Thanks gor the suggestion. Does enyone know if the first fracture depth is the hardface down to the iron body, or is it likely to go down futher to the second step? At the clean side, the face appears to be 5-10mm thick. Guess I could do a rebound test of sorts on different areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo7 Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 best way to tell would be hit the second step with a scriber and then see if the scriber sounds different on the side (known soft). Head over to chat now if you like, I'm about 3 hrs west of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Dunk: You threw out SCRAP STEEL!! AIEEEEE! I am afraid my friend you're going to find that harder and harder to do from now on. The blacksmith part of your brain will only see things you can make from scrap . I'd have you starting out making basic things to practice necessary techniques, S and drive hooks, maybe nails. Then a couple chisels and some punches: Center punch and hole punch of useful sizes. After you made and heat treated a cold chisel a slitting chisel and maybe a couple drifts. You can use long pieces of stock to make all these so you won't need tongs. Once you're reasonably proficient at drawing and cutting a rivet set is a good idea. Now while learning some basics you have a kit to make tongs with. Tongs really aren't beginner projects they can be awfully easy to screw up but you do need some. Twist tongs are easy get started tongs a web search should hit on good instructions. Things like bottom tools, hardies being a grand daddy bottom tool are definitely NOT beginner projects. You'll have your plate full learning to heat treat chisels. Don't shelve the idea just put it on hold till you've developed the skills sets, there is a LOT to this craft. Yeah you need hammers, virtually any smooth faced hammer is good just don't go very heavy till you develop good hammer control. Ikg and under is good. I recommend a 32oz. 1kg. driller hammer. They have short handles smooth faces and are a good weight to move metal and not so heavy so as to injure you nor make mistakes permanent too quickly. There's nothing like a HEAVY hammer to make a little goof into a permanent discard ornament. Just don't get i a hurry, learning the craft takes time and research. the only real "secret" I've discovered to learning it is, "A little knowledge and a LOT of practice." Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunk_c Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 Thanks Frosty. Yeah, thoughts of what has been sent to landfill over the years won't be any good for my health! I am already thinking about all the rusty tools in my shed and at flea markets that can potentially be recycled. I was wondering if there was a student's path to follow in getting the basic skills; the order of the items you suggested sounds just like that! Can you expand on this list with respect to making a set of tools and perhaps some useful items such as hinges, rivets etc. Going to be limited by the size of the steel I can heat. Picked up some 1 inch square mild steel bar today, bfore I read tour reply but will put that aside while I tackle the simpler stuff you suggested, but just in case I get the urge to make a hot cut-off hardie, is there any real danger of breaking the tail of the anvil off with heavy blows to form the peg? Is common hot rolled mild steel from the local suppliers 1020 or 1045 ? cheers 9 hours ago, turbo7 said: best way to tell would be hit the second step with a scriber and then see if the scriber sounds different on the side (known soft). Head over to chat now if you like, I'm about 3 hrs west of you. Sorry Turbo7, missed your invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 "common hot rolled mild steel from local suppliers" in the USA *isn't*; it's usually A-36. You have to pay extra to get true mild which would be 1018 or 1020. 1045 is a medium carbon steel and would never be sold as "mild" save by mistake as it costs more than mild! A-36 is more of a pain to forge but it's the cheapest and a lot of us smiths are all about the cheap! (One of the biggest differences is I strongly suggest to *NOT* quench A-36; but just let it normalize as it may harden appreciable with quenching unlike true mild.) Breaking the anvil: sort of depends on the anvil. I have one I'd worry a lot about and one I use a 7# sledge on all the time, (and one already missing the tail...) I'd prefer to do such work on a swage block or "portable hardy hole" myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunk_c Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 One piece of rebar bashed into useful item on new anvil. Not very elegant to my eye but it does work. Uploaded picture of the small forge it was made in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunk_c Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 New hardy hot cutter. 1" mild steel, convex edge. Had to weld on skirt, not enough strength to do otherwise. Seems to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 G'day Dunk. Welcome to the forum - you can learn a lot here. I'm Australian too, but I'm a couple of days drive north of you. No doubt you have visited the railway workshops museum in your town. I was there last year and after I expressed an interest in anvils, the tour guide gave me a special look at the blacksmiths' workshops which are now closed to the public. There are some monster anvils and power hammers in there. I like your Wilkinson anvil. It exudes character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunk_c Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 Hello Ausfire I have been there a couple of times - it is an interesting museum. Sad to see they stopped the workshop tour. I caught it once and watched a hammer being forged on a large power hammer, a joy to watch. I recognized some of the staff from playing Ipswich sport thirty years ago - should have asked if they had a spare anvil they didn't need; there must have been dozens on site in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunk_c Posted March 27, 2016 Author Share Posted March 27, 2016 Probably last post to this topic, might go over to TOOLS for tool making advice. Anyway, just a followup to my hot hardy picture. I needed to get billet to yellow heat and then was able to more easily drive into hardy hole and get a nice shoulder. Will build a bottom tool of some sort on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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