Making a forge from scrap vs buying a pre made

[jon taccona]

I want to know the advantages and disadvantages of making my own forge or buying say a majestic forge I want a small two burner or one burner because Im going to only be making knives once I gain for experience I will probably make a sword or two but that won't be for a while so a small forge will be enough for me...

im just starting out and i haven't even made one knife yet but I've been watching a bunch of knife making videos and I see this as being my next hobby to keep me busy I will need an anvil too and I can't find a good one for under 200 - 400

if I'm going to be making this forge from scratch myself I will need to buy all the stuff and I don't even know where to start I've looked around on eBay I have an old propane tank for my grill that I can use but I will buy the pre made if there isn't much of a difference in quality or price if you guys can help me out I'll greatly appreciate it I'm from north Las Vegas, Nevada please I really want to start making knives 

[bird]

For the same money or less you can build something better, but it will take time and basic skills. There's plenty of advice here on IFI to help you if you want to go that way. I can't speak to that forge in particular except to say it doesn't cost much. It doesn't look worse than the rest. I personally think that flat ceilings and rigidized fiber are bound to fail but lots of people use them all the time and fix or replace them as needed. It would get you started. 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Jon, glad to have you. I'm not sure how to answer you. If you don't have the shop skills you're better off buying than spending the time scrounging and winkling through building. You could spend less time mowing lawns and earning enough to buy new. Anvils are another matter and they're getting harder to find. Search out the TPAAAT here on Iforge. The technique works amazingly well for most anything but you need to develop applying it as a matter of daily course.

Frosty The Lucky.

[WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith]

Jon, go to the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com and study the tutorial attachments there.  With your 20# propane bottle you can build a very good, long lasting, efficient forge far cheaper than buying a comparable forge.  If you don't have the shop skills to build this you probably don't have the skills to be forging knives.  There is one necessary weld in this build but if you don't have a welder maybe you have a friend who does or you could get a welder at a shop to do it for you.

Let me know if I can help you.

As to anvils expect to pay $3.00 to $4.00 per pound for old used anvils.  There is nothing wrong with old anvils if they are in good shape.  Expect to pay $5.00 or more for new cast anvils.  Go to www.ABANA.org, click on Affiliates then click on Affiliate List, then find a blacksmithing group near you, attend a few meetings, get to know the people there and you will probably find them very friendly and helpful.  You may find your anvil there and even someone to help you build your forge.  The ABANA conference is going to be in Salt Lake City this year so try to go to it.  There will be tail gate sales there as well as demonstrations and you will learn much about blacksmithing and knife making.

Again, let me know if I can help you,

Wayne

waynecoe@highland.net

[JHCC]

Quite agree with everything said above (especially since it's coming from people with much more experience and expertise than me), but I'd add that this comes down to a combination of three things: Money, Time, and Desire.

If you really want to get forging right away and you have the money to afford a new, ready-to-burn forge, buy it and get to work.

If you really want the experience of building your own forge, time is no object, and money isn't the issue, buy or scrounge the materials and go for it.

If you don't have the money for a new forge, decide which is more valuable to you: the experience of acquiring materials and learning to build the forge (in which case, get scrounging), or being able to start forging sooner (in which case, find a side job). 

[Buzzkill]

If you have little to no forging experience and your objective is to make knives you are jumping into the deep end of the pool without learning to swim in the shallows.  It's not impossible, but you will be trying to learn a lot of new things at the same time so your failure rate may be higher than you like for a while.   If you are focused on knife making I'd suggest that you forget about a traditional anvil for the time being and just get a good chunk of solid steel to work on.  A round bar that is 3 inches or more in diameter (or square) set on end will give you a decent work area and won't break the bank.  An old hydraulic ram of decent size, a truck axle, etc. can probably be found for significantly under a dollar per pound and will serve you well until you can figure out what you really want.  Fifty to 100 pounds of steel - even mild steel - directly under your hammer will do what you need to begin.

If you want to get hammering right away you can get by with as little as a hole in the ground, a hair dryer, a piece of pipe and some coal or charcoal.  When we start out most of us want to get the perfect setup and the best tools, but the reality is the tools don't have nearly as much input on the finished product as the skill, patience, knowledge, and care of the person using the tools.  If you want to go with propane look up Frosty's T burner and search the site and Google for propane forges.  There are lots of good plans to choose from.  Just stay away from anything that suggests using any type of concrete, plaster of paris, portland cement, etc. for the refractory lining.  Those will not hold up to forging temperatures.   Spend some time on here reading and you'll quickly find the general recommendations from experienced people that will get you headed in the right direction.

Welcome to your new addiction!

[Latticino]

Actually if you just want to get to knife making on a budget, my suggestion would be to forgo the forging altogether for a while.  Buy yourself some decent 1084 tool steel that has already been annealed, a hacksaw, a couple of good files and a bunch of silicon carbide sandpaper.  Make some stock removal blades using draw filing techniques and hand finishing.  Send out your blanks for professional heat treatment.  This will get you some good skills that can be used on every knife you make in the future, as well as testing your patience and attention to detail (not to mention an extremely low cost investment).

There are quite a few good books available to help you on this journey.

Once you have the grind work mastered (pun intended) you can move on to learning how to properly heat treat the blanks yourself.

The blade forging portion of knife making is only a very small portion of the overall set of skills that are needed for being a bladesmith, though arguably the most fun part.  As others have stated, learning some basic blacksmithing skills with a hands on teacher will serve you well there.

[notownkid]

Seems like 2 out of 3 people stating out here want to make knives with no experience, no equipment and expect to be producing them in 48 hrs.  Doesn't happen that way, it's not like a lot of hobbies that everything is available at the drop of the hat it takes time and training.  While I like to watch the folks on the TV shows forging knives it seems like everyone thinks it's easy. 

Good luck but training and education must come first.

[Mikey98118]

All these guys are right, but you need to hear what they are actually saying. "You'll "be jumping in at the deep end of the pool without first learning to swim" doesn't mean you'll sink and drown; it means you'll have to struggle. The most important factor isn't how steep the climb, but how interested you are in getting to the mountain top.

How interested you really are in the subject that will determine whether or not you'll master it, which is why common sense barely effects the amount of success that out of your decisions. It is important that you don't happy talk yourself about how much you want to succeed, though, because absent a driving interest, all the common sense in the world won't help you...

[WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith]

I have youngsters come to my shop for classes.  First thing they want to make is a SWORD!  I tell them that is to advanced so then they want to make a KNIFE!  Then I tell them you come here and learn how to move metal and to make the projects that I assign and then after about a year we will look into making a knife.

[Forging Carver]

10 hours ago, WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.c said:

I have youngsters come to my shop for classes.  First thing they want to make is a SWORD!  I tell them that is to advanced so then they want to make a KNIFE!  Then I tell them you come here and learn how to move metal and to make the projects that I assign and then after about a year we will look into making a knife.

That's what I always get asked when I tell people I am a blacksmith.

"Oh so you make knives and swords?"

And then there is everybody's favorite

"Can you shoe my horse?"

[Frosty]

I tell folk I only shoo horses if they make pests of themselves.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

Wayne,

I hear what you're saying and agree with your conclusions, but the desires of the average kid to skip straight to what they want, strongly indicates no driving interest in learning anything, but rather it points to a "gimme, gimme" attitude. So maybe we aren't so much disagreeing as fulfilling the old saw that goes " it's six, I tell ya; no, no, its half a dozen!"

Often a truth can only be seen, when conflicting ideas are held in balance against each other.

[WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith]

Well, every one of them kept coming and they all did make several knives, after J hooks, tongs, forged hearts, etc, etc, etc.  I am very proud of all of them and they all have shops at their homes now.  Twelve to sixteen is a good age to get them started, before they get driver's license and discover girls, then they have to get a job so that they can buy a car and gas.  Most of these guys parents had to bring them to the shop so they wound up hammering too.

[Frosty]

I get both kinds, lots seem to find something else to do when they discover there's more to it than just showing up. Then there are the kids I'm honored and proud to be able to help. There are lots of kids who know how to work for what they want though I am having trouble adjusting to being called sir and Mr.Frost.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

It's been about fifteen years since I taught a class in the garage, which now resembles The Dark Hole of Calcutta; that was much more satisfying than writing books...hmm.

[orange]

On 3/6/2016 at 8:13 PM, WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.c said:

I have youngsters come to my shop for classes.  First thing they want to make is a SWORD!  I tell them that is to advanced so then they want to make a KNIFE!  Then I tell them you come here and learn how to move metal and to make the projects that I assign and then after about a year we will look into making a knife.

Wayne, they are excited. Can't help that. How many stick to long enough to gain the knowledge to make knives?

On 3/4/2016 at 3:14 PM, notownkid said:

Seems like 2 out of 3 people stating out here want to make knives with no experience, no equipment and expect to be producing them in 48 hrs.  Doesn't happen that way, it's not like a lot of hobbies that everything is available at the drop of the hat it takes time and training.  While I like to watch the folks on the TV shows forging knives it seems like everyone thinks it's easy. 

Good luck but training and education must come first.

You know the series Forged in Fire has really peaked people's interest. But they should note that guys with 5,10,30 years experience screw up under pressure. The last episode I watched the man that won made a sword that was never heat treated to the correct temperature. You could tell before he quenched it. Sorry for going off in a tangent. Just making the point that even with experience you can still fail. So as you say education is truly important.

[Frosty]

The fellow on FIF wasn't a sword maker, swords are NOT long knives. You're right though it was obvious while they were doing it, neither finalist heat treated their blades correctly.

I'll bet you aren't going to see a top end sword smith on FIF either, Imagine giving JPH 5 FIVE!! days to make a sword! I mean holy moley! Of course if they do put together a group of world class bladesmiths I'm recording it.

Frosty The Lucky.