dickb Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I am using Rutland black furnace cement thinned with water to clay a blade.I will be using a few thin coats instead of a single thick coat. First attempt at claying.Can anyone suggest (approximately) how thick to apply it.I know I may have to experiment a little, but I'd like to have an idea where to start,I am interested in differential hardening, making a hamon is not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 One of my books on Japanese craft mentions 3/16 equilivant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 clay thickness will depend on your steel type, hardening temp, quenchant type, quenchant temp , normalising regime, blade thickness and angle of grind.....Its a suck it and see kind of deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowles Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 what typ of clay is used for the Hammond ?? theres regular fire clay.....but there is no info on the temp it will indure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I have seen demonstrations using fireplace repair cement. If you research this site you will find a number of different opinions on what is best to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 On 2/22/2016 at 1:42 PM, Jim Cowles said: what typ of clay is used for the Hammond ?? theres regular fire clay.....but there is no info on the temp it will indure Perhaps if you research Hamon rather than an organ company you will have better luck? the fire clay I have has temperatures listed on the can, I used 1/4 inch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 On 2/25/2016 at 9:29 AM, Steve Sells said: Perhaps if you research Hamon rather than an organ company you will have better luck? the fire clay I have has temperatures listed on the can, I used 1/4 inch. He's just trying to get organized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 4 hours ago, JHCC said: He's just trying to get organized. Just had to pipe up with that didn't you? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave51B Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Well that might just be the key to his problem......Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I don't know when to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickb Posted February 27, 2016 Author Share Posted February 27, 2016 Gentlemen Are you are standing too close to the fire. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 It's all the manual labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhitee93 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I don't like the tone of this thread, but I'll chime in with what I have done. I am fascinated with hamons, and have not been able to find much about what really causes them to tick. It seems like the people who have really figured out how to get a lot of wispy activity have done so by trial and error, and that small variables keep you from creating a procedure that will work for everyone. I have been using Rutland's black furnace/fireplace cement. i water it down to a thin paintable consistency, and put a very very thin wash coat over the entire blade. (basically a painted on coat) When this is dry, I use a slightly thicker coat to create the hamon line, and try to add some ashi lines. My clay is probably a little less than 1/8" at the spine, and about 1/16" nearest the edge. I do all of this with Aldo's 1095, and quench from 1500F into brine for 3 seconds and then finish cooling in canola. I get nice wavy hamon lines that mostly follow the clay, but not a lot of a activity. The transition from the hard to the soft steel is very abrupt, ie the transition line comes out very narrow. After seeing a few pre-quench pics from some great hamon makers, I think my clay is way too thick. My next attempt is going to use very little clay to see what happens. I think a lot of this comes down to understanding how to tune the process for your particular setup. Good luck! Here is a pic of the last intentional hamon I did: http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii601/BriansEngines/Blacksmithing/Knifes I Made/IMG_3315_zpsd8f85d46.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Thanks, rhitee93. Sounds like you really know the score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Rhitee93 I've been reading up on it and I'm looking forward to my first hamon attempt. Nothing is cast in stone but there does seem to be some minor consensus regarding the finishing. Specifically I've noted that more grinding (stock removal) tends towards less "activity" in the hamon. I stumbled into some intriguing posts where knife makers were talking about using powdered abrasives. The idea was that the abrasives were free to roll and tumble in the cut rather than planing to peaks down as you'd get with sheet backed abrasives. The posts indicated that they switched to powdered abrasives after etching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhitee93 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 That's interesting rockstar, I know that a lot of people who get very interesting hamons use powdered abrasive in the later stages of their polishing, and that many will selectively polish the harder edge to create more contrast. (That is a traditional Japanese method) However, I haven't heard about why the powdered abrasive is different than the paper backed or stones. I have seen a lot of inferences to heat reducing hamon activity. A few post by people that get great results have even mentioned that normal tempering temperatures will negatively effect hamon activity. It doesn't take a great leap in logic to believe that localized heating to 300F during grinding would have a similar effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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