natenaaron Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 As a beginner I am planning to modify a hardware store bought sledge hammer. I was going to follow the directions given on this site but none of the pics show the hammer profile. I went to google typed in blacksmith hammer profiles and got lots of examples. So here is my question based on the profiles I sawThe french profile has the pien not at the center of the head but at the topThe (what I am calling) standard profile has the pien at the center of the headThe Japanese hammer has no pien at all.What is the benefit of each profile and what is the pien for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 You just opened a can of worms. May be a couple of posts so that it doesn't disappear or get the forbidden error. The pein is for drawing metal out in one direction.It makes a sort of ripple in hot steel, making it longer perpendicular to the length of the pein. Then you go back and smooth out the ripple with the nearly flat face of the hammer, pushing it further and flattening it out. If the pein goes from side to side, then the metal will get longer lengthwise. A ball pein pushes it out in all directions equally.The main difference in the german (centered) pein and the french is that the weight is off center behind the face in a french style. This can be convenient when drawing or forging. There's some preference. There's also a swiss, which is basically a longer german style with a thinner pein. A rounding hammer is also incredibly useful. It has one face that is more rounded, and can basically be tilted slightly to draw in one direction or another. There's a straight pein, which some smiths like, and my favorite, the diagonal pein, which works like a crosspein, but lets you see your work better as you hit it. The japanese, or dog head hammer has all the weight forward and is usually used in bladework, or for small, flat pieces. It'll wear you out 'til you're used to it, then you'll love it.There's a great forum on here someplace about modifying a sledge using a grinder. I believe it's in the knife making classes. I've done it a couple of times and it works well, Basically you remove the head, mark everything out with a magic marker, and when it gets too hot to hold, into the quench bucket. Repeat. Finish with a flap disc. This way you don't even ruin the heat treat. I also recommend using a wood handle, if you can find one at the box stores or make one, and modifying it before reapplying.Then there's chasing and repousse hammers, set hammers......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Nobody covered the bases real well. My question is "Sledge? " what weight are we talking about here. I have a Peddinghaus hammer with a straight peen weighs in at around 3Kg. heavy enough to make a good striking hammer for a helper or you can choke up on it and one hand when nothing but heavy hammer will do. The reason I ask is some people refer to a two faced engineer hammer as a sledge. I've found that purpose made blacksmith hammers are generally better balanced than adaptations of hardware hammers. My favorite hammer at the moment is my Hofi hammer. There are ripoff of the design available for from one of the blacksmith suppliers but I don't recall which one. Glenn may have a line on the real thing which would be preferable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 First, the "flat face" should be smothly radiused about a 12" radius is good (i mark it out on the bench, most peins are about an inch, but some are fater, some slimmer. Some are even flatish. There are acualy 3 styles of cross pein, uper, middle and lower. I think it comes down to oersonal preference. Honestly I like half round peins (if the head is 2" across use a 1" radie) Then you get into rounding hammers and ball peins and.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Hammer profiles go hand in hand with what YOU are going to make and how YOU work the metal; about the best I can say is don't go with dead flat with sharp edges; make smooth transitions for everything.Really this question is a lot like: I notice a lot of different cars on the road please tell me how each one differs from all the others and which is the best... Now if you ask "I want to hot dish elbow and knee cops which styles of hammers and forms work well together; that can be answered in a single thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) What the hell? My posts keep getting eaten. I hope they give the software constipation.Maybe if I make this real short. After lots of thought aiming for blade making. The thread I was referring to was about store bought hammer mods. Since it was in regards to knife making I thought the hammer profile I needed was what the OP of that thread made. Guess not.Thanks for the info. Guess it is back to the drawing board. Edited October 24, 2015 by natenaaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) THERE IS ONLY ONE CORRECT WAY TO DO ANYTHING IN BLACKSMITHING!and that is ANY WAY THAT WORKS FOR *YOU*! I've made knives with old single jacks, short handled sledges. english cutlers dog headed hammers, even dome faced hammers though that's a lot trickier. It's not the hammer that makes the blade it's the smith's skills that do so! Once as a demo I forged a damascus billet using a clawhammer and a piece of unworn rail-----came out just as well as if I used a swedish crosspeen and my 515# anvil. 100 hours at the anvil will beat $100 hammers *every* *time*! Woot! only 3 times to post a reply! Edited October 24, 2015 by ThomasPowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Thanks Thomas. I want something that is not going to frustrate me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Gess I'm not seposed to post any more on this thread.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Thanks Thomas. I want something that is not going to frustrate me.And that my friend is exactly why I suggest a person learn blacksmithing BEFORE trying to make blades. The tools don't do diddly, it's the clever monkey with thumbs that do it all.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I claim proud descent from over 1.5 million years of such tool using monkeys (well hominids). Opposable thumbs *rule*! So what you want is probably a 2-3 pound hammer with a flat face where the edges have been rounded over to make a smooth transition. A "rocker face" is nice too but you can get started with a plain one. I like finding old hammers cheap that already have a good face on them---better a US$5 hammer ready to go than a $25 hammer that needs a lot of grinding! However if you are going to start with blades you better get used to loving frustration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew D Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I bought an old Two Axe Brand 4 pound sledge off ebay for about $10, including shipping. I wanted it to be a rounding hammer. Using a 1 inch belt grinder and making sure the table was square to the belt, I carefully flattened one side with the hammer on the table. Then setting the table at different angles I rounded the other side with a nice 4-5 inch radius. The hammer works great and the price was right. Used a nice piece of maple to make a handle. So far so good. Plus it is a cool vintage hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I am not a fan of dead flat hammer faces, they tend to jump in your hand if you don't hit perfectly flat. Leads to taking a death grip on the hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Crowned face means better results for less effort. I have a couple flat faced hammers but almost never go find one and then mostly to use an edge to texture.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 One thing flat faces work pretty well for is the outside of a radius say a horseshoe they don't leave as many hammer marks there. really need to stir the pot. Charles try boxing heels on the horn with a really flat face as opposed to a what you are using, I think you might like the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Charles try boxing heels on the horn with a really flat face as opposed to a what you are using, I think you might like the results.Hi Mark,I thought you had to be on your toes, when Boxing.Is it Nate, or Aaron?The question about Hammers is a $64,000.00 question. The answer is; Take the number of people in this Forum, multiply by at least six, divide by 2, factor in the square root (to get to the root of the question) and add at least 8. That will give you a specific answer that won't mean anything, BECAUSE, I make the Best Hammers!! They are or aren't painted, but I send them to school so they already know how to work!!Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Really? I can't speak for anyone else but I have 4 hammers that I use regularly and maybe 4 others that I use on occasion. I think every smith picks up the hammer that feels right for the job without much calculation. (rounding hammers have a radius face and a very flat face in my experience. When I watch farriers work they seem to use the face that suits the job with no hesitation in selection. The change happens from one strike to the next.) Now Driving Hammers there is where you will get a discussion among farriers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Nope, I like my cavalry. Any othe choice is stupid (-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 There was a time when Jay Sharp hammers were pretty common in the farrier community. Some people did not like the really flat face but what I discribed it did really well. I don't have a cavalry hammer I had started making my own by the time I heard of them and being cheap and apparently stupid I never saw the need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaK Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) So I bought a sledge hammer off kijiji today for $15, and it's really beat to XXXX. Looks like someone has been smashing big rocks with it or something. My plan is to grind all the chunked out parts smooth, and then re-forge one end into a cross-pien. So my question is two-fold: one, do you think I can even forge a cast hammer head? I assume I should be able to if it's cast steel, but i imagine cast iron would go very badly. The second question is, do you think it's worth trying, or should I just resurface the better face and use it as is rather than risk destroying the whole thing? Either way is not that big a deal, since it's only $15, but I figured I would quickly check to see what you guys think. Edited October 30, 2015 by Dale Russell language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Why not just clean up one face and use that one? If you need to spread material one direction use a top and or bottom tool. Not that there is anything wrong with forging it into a cross pein, though you then get to guess at heat treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Pretty much All steel is cast steel somewhere in it's process---biggest exception being bloomery made steels.It's your tool you may do with it what you will. Do you have a lot of experience forging and heat treating higher carbon steels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 methinks you wasted $15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewayforge Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I wouldn't use it as it, the weight will be unbalanced. For 15 dollars, you can teach yourself many new things, through mistakes, even! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Unbalanced like the hammers the Japanese and European Cutlers have used for centuries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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