was just curious, does anyone do pattern steel by hand? 

Hundreds of smiths that I know of.  Why?

I just love how it looks and would like to try after I make another 5 or so knives but I don't think I will ever buy a power hammer (this side of a lottery win and I'm not lucky.) 

Every youtube video I've seen of someone doing a pattern blade is using a power hammer. I'm hammering out truck leaf springs into blade thickness so I didn't think a billet would be too much harder.

 

It is impossible to make without a gas furnace and a power hammer...just ask the Saxons....impossible.

Alan

 

 

 

P.s. I think your question should be the other way around...I dare say a few percent of it, and only in recent years, will have been made with a power hammer or press.

Since I don't have power to my shop I generally do this by hand.  That's why I start with 25 layer billets of bandsaw blade and pallet strapping: 5 welds => 25,50,100,200,400 instead of 5,10,20,40,80.

I'm sure the Saxon process was en-thralling...

Edited September 17, 201510 yr by ThomasPowers

Since I don't have power to my shop I generally do this by hand.  That's why I start with 25 layer billets of bandsaw blade and pallet strapping: 25,50,100,200,400 instead of 5,10,20,40,80,160,320

pallet strapping being those metal bands wrapped around stuff for shipping?  I would love to see a pic of a blade made from those and bandsaw blades if you have one around.

Would you be willing to share your process? I'm wondering how you move from 25 very thin and I'm guessing narrow (1/2" wide?) strips of metal into a bar.

 

This is a knife I finished back on 6/11/2010. 72 layers of 15N20 and 1084, all forge welded by hand on the anvil - no power hammer.

It is 3-1/2" long when closed.

Wow very nice Jeremy!

Well I forge weld them; pretty much the same with 25 as with 3; you just have to be careful not to burn up the outer layers before the inner ones heat to welding temps.  I test the pallet strapping by heat/quench/break to preferentially select the higher carbon ones if I'm welding for a blade.  The nickel in the BSB makes for a bright line in the etch.

try reading the knife making classes.... its covered there

will-do. Thank you for the replies.

Forge welding is pretty fun when you know how. Just remember to heat nice and slow, and try to stay with carbon steels.

As you can see, you don't need a power hammer or press to pattern weld.  I don't own any power forging equipment.  All you need is a willingness to sweat, get burned and swing a sledge hammer.  A little tip, don't play with 52100. 

As you can see, you don't need a power hammer or press to pattern weld.  I don't own any power forging equipment.  All you need is a willingness to sweat, get burned and swing a sledge hammer.  A little tip, don't play with 52100. 

noted!  Sweat and ability to get burned, I have plenty of.

 

Iron Poet are you assuming that all pattern welding has to be used for blades?

I'm all for guys doing it by hand should they chose to do so. But, that being said, I like to play with various patterns, and as such, being 67 with sore everything, I like to get things finished w/o Aleve and scotch to sleep thru the night. Therefore, power is good for me.

Forge welding is pretty fun when you know how. Just remember to heat nice and slow, and try to stay with carbon steels.

technically, all steel is a carbon steel, because Iron plus Carbon = Steel....

As you can see, you don't need a power hammer or press to pattern weld.  I don't own any power forging equipment.  All you need is a willingness to sweat, get burned and swing a sledge hammer.  A little tip, don't play with 52100. 

enlighten us on playing with 52100

enlighten us on playing with 52100

Lol, sounds like you already know the reason.  True story bro, a young man came into my store.  He claimed to forge swords and make his own steel.  I could tell he was a little green and didn't understand metallurgy, so being one who likes to teach I handed him a 1 1/4" x 1 1/2  roller bearing and told him to forge a knife from some "good" steel.  A couple of weeks later he came back, after asking how it was going his response, "well, it's kinda square now". 

 

Not to mention, in my experience 52100 doesn't like to weld to itself.  If you do get brave and try some, it does make a nice pattern.  Although 52100 does, in my experience, take over the billet.  (the pictured knife is hand forged).

Shamus....the technique is to size the work to your tools. If you have a 2 pound hammer then do not forge on five pound billets. Weld up smaller one pound billets and then join them if you wish to be larger. I made multi bar sword blanks without electricity years ago...now I have every tool I think can save either time or my body (like Mr. Gearhart).

ALSO...thee is a time honored tradition of renting time at other's shops where there is tooling. A day at a shop with a hydraulic press and a gas forge would replace a week of hand work or more.

 

Ric

technically, all steel is a carbon steel, because Iron plus Carbon = Steel....

Though technically to stay within context of most knife and metallurgical conversations, when talking about carbon steels we are excluding stainless steels.

 

To remain on topic, I made my first pattern weld with hand hammer. It took a fair bit of time and I lost a great deal of material due to scale. But it worked. I now use this knife as a utility blade in the shop as a constant reminder of humble beginnings.

I would try to keep the two steels as close in relation as possible. With the amount of heats it will probably take there will be carbon migration galore. 15n20/1084 is a basic recipe for success. Leave wrought, mild steels or anything else that may suck the carbon over by a great deal, out.

Edited September 20, 201510 yr by DanielC

.........   I would try to keep the two steels as close in relation as possible. With the amount of heats it will probably take there will be carbon migration galore. 15n20/1084 is a basic recipe for success. Leave wrought, mild steels or anything else that may suck the carbon over by a great deal, out.

actually modern testing proved carbon migration is very fast.  So fast that by the second weld, >80% and at the third weld, 100% homogeneous carbon content with 1/4 inch thick stock. so you can easily imagine us using thinner stock for building up billets, there is a real risk in using any low carbon steels in a billet that will need hardening later.

That is not what I have read in the past. I would have to check but I read it taking many minutes to migrate a fraction of a mm. Where is the info you have found? If that is correct, there's a lot of sanmai that needs to be addressed.

Perhaps if you find the time to read some of the publications less than 7 years old from Prof. Bain, Howard Clark, ASM International, or my book 'Introduction to Knifemaking".   There are many old wives tails that have been proven false in modern labs and forges.  This changes nothing about Sanmai, as it is still 3 layered, just not as much difference between carbon content as once assumed. there are still other alloy elements that do make a difference.

So you have a sophisticated lab to prove this, or in your book you quote the work of others?

Either way, fast or slow it will migrate. Dont mix really low carbon steels with HC steels if you want it to remain as high as possible.