jmccustomknives Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Most definitely. Welding thin pieces together is difficult enough without the possibility of burning the outside sections in a coal fire. For knife making you should get a gas forge. I've played with the band saw/banding. It doesn't do very good but there is a trick. Cut your saw blades in short sections 3-4". Leave the banding in one piece and fold the billet together. You can crimp the banding together with a hammer with every fold. It holds together well. You can get 2-3 folds before you burn off the low carbon banding, after that the saw steel may not weld together. On that last fold I'd take a small file and fold the billet to make a quasi san mai so at least it would hold an edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus Blargostadt Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 yes I have a gas forge but had read you needed coal to get it hot enough for welding. I'll give it a shot in the gas. Thank you! is my sequence of steps accurate? 1. heat 2. flux 3. heat 4. hammer 5. repeat until welded? How many iterations should this take if done proper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Thanks for starting this thread Shamus. I was wondering the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Not all gas forges will get hot enough. You'll just have to give it a go. You can do an experiment by getting the forge up to temp and taking 2 steel rods and put them in. Bring them to a red heat and flux then put them back and bring them to the welding temp. When they are as hot as you can get them touch them together. If they stick your forge is probably hot enough to do the job. Let us know how it goes. 1. first heat bring to red and flux. 2. return to forge, bring to heat. flux should be bubbling. Allow for a good soak time as most welds fail because the center isn't at welding temps. 3. Start at the end of the billet and with sharp but not overpowering strikes work your way down. Do it this way to keep pockets from forming and ruining the billet.. I like to repeat the weld at least once, twice isn't a bad idea if you aren't sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Hello: Hope no one minds..I have been doing this a wee bit and i think I have enough figured out to be of some help. Gas vs coal: Gas..clean burning USUALLY hot enough to weld and can be carburated to run at a "welding heat". Coal: Gets destruictively hot if not careful and can be dirty and this can be a problem with welding Number of pieces. I usually weld 1 1/4" sq x 16 to 18" with between 80 to 125 pieces the first weld...draw and cut into 4ths or 5ths, reweld and you are basically ready to pattern. Folding takes way to long and wastes alot of materials. below photo is the first weld done on a faggot of 120 pieces of 1095 and L-6 with some SS HT foil thrown in just for giggles...with my 8# forging hammer Just make sure you are hot enough and well soaked.. Clean weld surfaces and not too much flux and you should do OK just my 2 bits worth..may or may not work for you... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus Blargostadt Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 so if done right, you should only have to flux and weld once or twice? if so I was way off target then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 For your pattern welded billets 1 round of flux is adequate. JPH, 1095 & L-6 is one of my fav combos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Forge welding is one of those things that HELPS A LOT TO DO IT THE PRESENCE OF SOMEONE WHO IS GOOD AT IT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus Blargostadt Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 Thanks for the many comments. I'm going to keep trying. I can't count the number of times I wished I could just follow someone around their shop and watch how they do things. I do appreciate the efforts of the experienced smiths here to explain things to new folk and I also understand there are a million details that just can't be documented that will affect an outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 SB: I think you are making this more difficult than it really is..the key to a good weld is proper temp all the way though..clean (no scale, crud or inclusions) with weld surfaces that are "smooth and "dent free" and enough flux to just coat and prevent oxidation..Other than that it is really not that hard to do. Believe me if I can do it..just about anyone can... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus Blargostadt Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 The bandsaw blade and banding doesn't have stuff on them but I didn't sand them down to shiny metal.. the banding has black on it (paint?) and the saw blade looks used.. maybe a tad oxidized. Should I sand the pieces down first for it to weld properly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 On 2/1/2016 at 5:55 PM, Shamus Blargostadt said: .. back into the fire to get red hot... hammer, then repeat until giving up in futility. Didn't see this mentioned elsewhere, but red hot? If the steel was red, then that's your problem there. Need to be at a welding heat to weld, and that'll be closer to yellow/white depending on the materials and lighting. Also, you need to clean the surfaces for the first weld. IMO, if you use flux, use it to keep the surfaces clean, not to do the cleaning. My apologies If that goes without saying, but I often say things that are better left un-said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 SB: If you are referring to the black lacquer/paint coating that is on some metal strapping..there is no harm in removing it..and there is no harm really in leaving it on either. I myself remove the majority of it..more out of habit than anything.. welding is one of the most basic techniques in iron working and for some reason folks get this idea that it is almost impossibly difficult when it really isn't.. You do need to meet some requirements but it really is not all that hard to do..As I said before..If someone as ham handed as I am can do this..just about anyone can... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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