Steelfinger Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 hey,Ive been working in the forge lately, but ive run into some problems:when i watch youtube videos, the guys there maintain heat for way longer than i do, and I'm not clear what's happening that allows that. this creates further problems, as by reheating i get more oxidation, which hurts like hell (i need a new brush) and pits the steel. if its the answer, im running propane, a 'magestic forge' two burner knife maker, wide open both ends. if i cover that with firebrick (i only can get the hard, uninsulating kind), will that solve my oxidation problems at least? of course it will boost efficiency which, what i hear, magestic forges really need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Maintaining heat in the stock has a lot to do with stock size and how you forge. 1" round is going to hold heat a lot longer than 1/4" flat will. Note that many minimize the contact of the stock on the anvil. Lay a piece of stock unnecessarily on the anvil while you fiddle say looking for your punch or chisel, and the anvil is simply going to bleed off your heat. By the time you get to it, it may already need to go back in the fire if it was thin stock to begin with. Also note many guys who are efficient, don't dilly dally. They make quick deliberate movements. By doing the work in a shorter period of time, they conserve heat. As far as your forge, how it is tuned will probably play a big role in how much scale you get. If the forge is running a bit rich, there won't be any O2 in the forge to cause scale to start to form. If your flame is too lean, then the extra O2 can go towards making scale while it's heating up. Keep in mind pitting is often caused by either forging on scale on the anvil, or not removing scale from the work. If you keep the anvil clean and clean your material, it will cut down on "damage" caused by scale acting like a bottom or top tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Simple answer to one of your statements is, when forging on camera, the electronic sensor is much more sensitive to light than your eye and will show incandescence for a longer duration. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelfinger Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Thanks to both. I unfortunately don't have many adjustments on my forge, and fear burning too much fuel. hypothetically, if I layered some charcoals on the bottom, would that help fix my oxygen problem? it was just a dumb idea I had. what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 A couple points. Quick quick quick. Do your thinking in the fire. Pulling the work then trying to decide what to do is wasting time, effort, steel and fuel.Is your work scaling IN the forge or after you pull it? Hot steel WILL scale on contact with air but if it's scaling IN the forge it's burning too lean. You're putting all this effort into failed rojects and worried about burning a little too much propane? Propane is more valuable than your time ad the steel? Turn the propane up a LITTLE bit and see if that helps with scale.Throwing a piece or two of charcoal in a gas forge works well for scavenging free oxy. Its an old school trick before folk started paying better attention to air fuel ratios.Get a good wire brush, hammering scale into the work isn't attractive. A butcher block brush is the same basic thing as sold as a blacksmith's brush.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Hold your stock a fraction of an inch above the anvil and drive it into the anvil with each blow, keeps the anvil from sucking up the heat. Prewarm the anvil first also helps, a 150f anvil sucks up heat slower than a 50f anvil. I can tell you that thin stock forged at the end of a sesion works better for this reason. If you can comfortably set on your anvil the calloses on your Butt are to thick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Also hitting the metal adds heat. You will notice this more when fullering but on small stock just get busy and hammer it, that helps small stuff a lot. You can add so much heat hammering that you can drastically increase work time. A good example of this is using one heat to make a nail. Left alone the metal would cool in less time than it takes to make a nail but they have plenty of heat to finish because of the internal friction of forging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarry Dog Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I've heard of a video of a guy hitting a smal piece of cold steel fast and hard enough that it started glowing. He started his forge with this "match". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I've heard of a video of a guy hitting a smal piece of cold steel fast and hard enough that it started glowing. He started his forge with this "match".I have seen videos of people lighting cigarettes and forges using hammer heated small stock. I wish I could find one video in particular. It shows the tradional forge lighting ceremony from Japan and the smith hammers what looked like 3/16 round until it was a very long slender taper and it was hot. He then used it to light a piece of paper he then used to start his forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I have seen videos of people lighting cigarettes and forges using hammer heated small stock. I wish I could find one video in particular. It shows the tradional forge lighting ceremony from Japan and the smith hammers what looked like 3/16 round until it was a very long slender taper and it was hot. He then used it to light a piece of paper he then used to start his forge.I would really like to see that video. I am still practicing the technique but am just a little short of lighting a fire yet. I am sure plenty guys here can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) I would really like to see that video. I am still practicing the technique but am just a little short of lighting a fire yet. I am sure plenty guys here can do it. I'll see if I can find it.heres a link to the one lighting a cigarette. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Px5JhFToss Edited August 31, 2015 by M Cochran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Moon man is the stone cold to red hot king. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I68Cik7ywgMain thing is to keep the steel moving and hit it hard and straight, I was told "thats a hammer not a toy you have there son, hit with it dont play with it"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I have seen that video before, he makes it look easy. It really isn't. I hope the video of the lighting ceremony surfaces sometime, I am always curious about ceremony surrounding forging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) All the energy in the hammer blow is converted to heat by friction when the stock stops it. You have to move fast and holding the stock slightly off the anvil really helps. Hard, fast and in the same spot will get it red hot surprisingly quickly. No, I didn't say easily.Frosty The Lucky. Edited August 31, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) I have seen that video before, he makes it look easy. It really isn't. I hope the video of the lighting ceremony surfaces sometime, I am always curious about ceremony surrounding forging. it was probably in one of the several videos I watched showing japanese smiths forging a katana. I'm still looking for it though. I enjoy watching the ceremony and patience they show as they work. It's unlike any other smiths I've watched, everyone else seems to always be in a hurry. Edited August 31, 2015 by M Cochran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 it was probably in one of the several videos I watched showing japanese smiths forging a katana. I'm still looking for it though. I enjoy watching the ceremony and patience they show as they work. It's unlike any other smiths I've watched, everyone else seems to always be in a hurry.I agree, it is so very foreign to me. I find myself always racing to do something and I hate it. The older I get the more I am concerned with doing a good job. Nice to see people taking the time they need to do something well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo7 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Moon man is the stone cold to red hot king. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I68Cik7ywgMain thing is to keep the steel moving and hit it hard and straight, I was told "thats a hammer not a toy you have there son, hit with it dont play with it"! Talk about power hammer. He hits like a power hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Thats because most of us choke up and dont reach for the stars before starting our swing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 The video is probably https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxwWf-MfZVk that one is unusually instructive even if the speaker got some words wrong.Göte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The video is probably https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxwWf-MfZVk that one is unusually instructive even if the speaker got some words wrong.GöteI think that's the one. I didn't watch it this time but jumped into it in a couple places and I definitely remember watchin it at least twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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