AML Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I've scoured for answers and found one that seems reasonable, but I thought I would run it past you guys before committing to it. Long story short, I'm building a water wall to drown out the noise of loud neighbors. I made a newbie design error and need to fix things up. I figured that since most blacksmiths weld, but not all welders smith, this was the place to seek wise counsel:The contraption is made from 1x1x1/8" angle. Imagine a 24" deep x 24" tall x 8' wide planter/reservoir and then the wall runs up 7'-6" from the top of the planter. The wall section is three sections, roughly equal in width. The front and side panels of the planter and the middle section of wall have 18 gauge sheet steel stitch welded into place. The other panels will have plywood and on the wall, some light gauge mesh. So when I was pulling it out of the garage today to flip it around I decided to stand it up. Oh dear it is big! While I'm not worried about the wind (it's have about 25 cubic feet of water in the bottom, those angles that are the wall sure looked wonky - not quite spaghetti, but some additional support is needed. So, I'm thinking of adding a 24" radius arc to join the wall and the planter on either side. This should help stiffen up the front to back. I was thinking about cross bracing the back for side to side.Here is the hot metal part: I read about a method of bending the steel around a double 3/4" plywood jig. Sounds like a good idea, but for the fire hazard. Anyone used this method of have a simple method? I will need 4 of these pieces. And I'd like them to look the same!Thanks for your input Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Defnately suggest you cross brace the bacl with flat bar, angle iron, or angle iron with the angle leg welded to the frame like this _7_ What metal are you going to use to make the arc? If it is flat bar the easy way you can bend 1/4 inch against a template cold. Undersize the tenplate to account for spring back.Photos of the project would help us visualize what is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AML Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Thanks Glenn - I will get some flatbar for cross bracing. I was thinking of using 1" x 1" square stock for the arc. So it matches the visible thickness of the other angle. Tube would be cheaper but probably harder to bend? I figure I need about 40" per piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Fill the tubing with sand prior to bending and it'll help it stay square and it'll be less likely to kink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Using plywood as a hot bending form will not give 4 equal pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AML Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Arftst - If I clad the plywood radius with some 18 gauge mild would that help, or you just don't like the method? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 You can do it hot but you'll need to soak the form in water a while first and then four is likely to be the most you'll get but that might be optimistic. Flat stock will be easy to bend but won't provide the rigidity it needs for a good hip brace.Bending tubing without kinking is a lot easier than most folk think so long as it isn't a sharp bend. Make your form a little smaller than the finish arc for rebound. Then feed a cable through the tubing and attach the ends to your puller and pull it around the form. The form will have to be very securely anchored and a pick up truck is more than enough puller for most jobs. This trick works best on round tubing and cable that only just slips through.I've seen loggers bend some pretty tight radiuses in 3"+ steel pipe around tree stumps with a dozer. I'm talking 2' radius in 3&4" pipe, it was amazing to watch the first time I saw it done.Anyway, if you use 1" scd. 40 pipe the toughest thing to do will be anchor the form so it can't move, the rest is easy.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) One X on the back of the project is better than nothing but not enough to my way of thinking. You could use 1/8 flat bar and weave it together to form a lattice work. Then weld all contact points to the the frame and to each other. Think about the plastic lattice work you can find at the big box stores. It could be a decorative element as well as a structural element. Nothing wrong with 1 x 1 inch solid but that could be a lot of weight and a lot of leverage with the height you are using. Add the wind load of the entire project and you may not like the calculations. Your 25 cubic feet of water is 1560 pounds in weight but it is also liquid (in the south) and can move around as the wind load hits the project.Rather than plywood forms, just weld real metal to your table and bend against real metal. Do several practice pieces before you do a production run. Edited July 26, 2015 by Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AML Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Thanks for the tips guys. Frosty - I'm not sure I've got anything secure enough to fasten a form to so I can bend it without it letting go and snapping into the truck! But I like the idea. I have to think that through. Maybe a tree stump and a come-along.... Glenn - You've convinced me to add a bit more cross bracing. Weave and weld fillets or cut and weld butt joints? AML Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwolfforgeca Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Frosty going to have to remember that cable trick ! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Start at the longest run and lay out the NW-SE flat bar and tac weld in place. Choose your spacing to match lumber and off set the next bar the space of a 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, 2x12 etc, cut and tack weld the next flat bar. Repeat as needed.Lay out the longest run of NE-SW flat bar in place on top the NW-SE flat bars, with no weave. Tac weld into place. Repeat as needed.When your satisfied, weld everything together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Aaron, will it hurt/kill someone/child if it fails? If so, rethink and evaluate your options. Whilst I have structural training I have the greatest respect for live loads(water) and would always consult with a registered structural engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AML Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Thanks for the cautionary note, Ian. While I want to drown out the noise of the neighbor, I don't want to kill anyone. I had thought of tying it back into some ground anchors and will now think about adding some dead weight to the bottom and maybe reducing the water load, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Why not rethink the idea and just have a water stream fall onto a piece of tin. Have a pump to recycle the water.You could build a water actuated teeter-toter out of plastic pipe. Fill one pipe and it will overbalance and dump into one or two pipes that will overbalance and dump. Get creative. Have a nut tied on a string to hit a piece of metal when it balances back to neutral. Lots of ways to make white noise. Edited July 27, 2015 by Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 A bender similur to a coduit bender isnt hard to make, bend a peice of 1" flat stock to shape, tack it to a peice of plate on each side, atach aproriate handle and a bar to hold the tubing in the jig. Sand will prevent the inside fom buckling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 You might be surprised how much leverage a piece of 20 foot long pipe can generate. Takes a 10 acre field to swing the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AML Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 I knew this was the right place to ask the question .Using the KISS principle, I think I'll use the flat bar as that will be easiest. To add rigidity and strength, I'll weld in flat bar as in the attached side elevation drawing. It will create some visual interest and solidify the rear wall. As to noise...don't get me started. Let's just reflect on Robert Frost's "Good fences make good neighbors" adage. When he was building, I had suggested to the neighbor he clad the two sides that face us but he declined. Now noise and light pour through, into our yard and house. Oh well, it's a free country. And there is no code on screens and planters! noname.pdf noname.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Had a buddy that delt with a roommate in the service creativly. He was a prince fan and owned a disk man player, wile his room mate was a gangster rap fan with a boom box. He bought a large amp, very lage speekers and a patch cable....his room mate got the point tho the WWII era casment windows didn't apretiate it much and it vibrated a vouple of pains out (helped hom put that back to get him out of hauk with the 1st seargent) room mate got the point and bought a good set off headphones. Not sugjesting floud lights and a loud PA sustem or anything..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AML Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Funny - I was toying with the idea of parabolic mirrors on the back side but my wife thought that would be too obvious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) I think strobes and Holts, maybe Waggner ( or is that spelled Vaugner...Then again perhaps UHF and UlF sound generators.... Dont forget to time the strobes right, many leaple will seaz if you get the frequency right...all kiding aside, your plan is probably better and way more legal than mine... Tho if you leave out the strobes who would know.... Edited July 27, 2015 by Charles R. Stevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I had a homemade sounding cannon I'd set off to calm my neighbors down when they got too loud with their music and drunk yellin in the middle of the night. It always brought back memories to the soundin cannons you heard in the military right before the flag went up or down the pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Taps and revely....those wer the days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 And goodnight Chesty Puller, wherever you are. Funny, it's usually the other way around with blacksmith's and neighbors and noise complaints... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarry Dog Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Same to Dan Dailey and Smedley Butler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I had a neighbor lived upstairs from me who played music and generally stomped around like nobody lived down stairs and wasn't inclined to agree with polite requests. Well, he worked nights and slept days while I was at work so I made a couple frames from 2"x4"s nothing fancy, just nailed a flat member across one end that just happened to be the right length to hold my speakers against his floor. I propped them up under his bed and loaded a Gregorian Lament 8 track (yeah, 8 track!) with the volume barely audible and left for work. He and his buddy didn't last a week and moved out. Go figure eh?About intensely tough men like Chesty Puller, here's a mountain man for you. http://www.historynet.com/hugh-glass-legendary-trapper-in-americas-western-frontier.htmFrosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.