The Young forge Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hey guys, I am a young bladesmith and am trying to figure out how to make my steel sto cracking. I make knives all the time, but only a few forged ones came out withous cracks, I used a file and it worked great, I used a leafspring and it cracked like ice, help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Welcome there is stacks of good information on this site about heat treatment but just quickly spring steel needs to be quenched in oil not water you will find that works much better.Check out the section on heat treatment. Edited June 4, 2015 by stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Someone with more experience may (probably will =D) correct me on this but I think the problem may be with the leaf spring itself. Leaf springs are usually under constant tension and can and do develop hairline cracks that may not be noticeable until forged. If you heat it and brush it you should be able to see the cracks and can possibly work around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Have you read the, never mind, silly question...Scroll down the page and you will notice we have an entire section, just for blade work. your answer is there if you want to know it, you can not fix it, only prevent it Welcome to the dark side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redd1981 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Is it cracking during forging or during the quench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Someone with more experience may (probably will =D) correct me on this but I think the problem may be with the leaf spring itself. Leaf springs are usually under constant tension and can and do develop hairline cracks that may not be noticeable until forged. If you heat it and brush it you should be able to see the cracks and can possibly work around them.That's a good place to start. I always recommend to new blacksmiths to always buy quality steel and stick with the same grade.. the learning curve is so much better when you can narrow down cause and effect. Scrap steel has way too many past life unknowns, be it stresses, fractures, previous abuse etc. Another huge factor is what you're quenching in and the temperature of that medium. 120F oil is going to treat steel differently 70F.J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JME1149 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Also the temperature at which you are working the steel, too hot, too cold, etc. Too many unknown variables in your question to provide specific answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crantius Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Forge in red/orange temp range, not above or below (unless you're using mild steel, then it doesn't matter). Anneal or normalize before hardening. Use heated oil to quench, or brine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young forge Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 it is cracking during the forging, not in the heat treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony San Miguel Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 If it's cracking during forging you could be forging at too low of a temperature. Do you actually see it crack while forging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Welcome aboard Young forge, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance.Probably one of the most valuable lessons offered here is to carefully sift the advice you get. An awful lot is from folk who have very little experience or knowledge but a strong desire to help. I don't fault folk for wanting to help but too much doesn't apply anywhere in the real world.Pull up a comfy chair, pack a lunch and something to drink and start reading the bladesmithing section of IFI. Your question has been answered many times by folk who actually KNOW what they're talking about. Better still by time you've read enough to find your answers you'll have a much larger knowledge base to build your hand skills on.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Welcome aboard Young forge, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance.Probably one of the most valuable lessons offered here is to carefully sift the advice you get. An awful lot is from folk who have very little experience or knowledge but a strong desire to help. I don't fault folk for wanting to help but too much doesn't apply anywhere in the real world.Pull up a comfy chair, pack a lunch and something to drink and start reading the bladesmithing section of IFI. Your question has been answered many times by folk who actually KNOW what they're talking about. Better still by time you've read enough to find your answers you'll have a much larger knowledge base to build your hand skills on.Frosty The Lucky.Actually Frosty, I think the standard statement about packing "A lunch" needs to be updated. There is soooo much really great and useful info that it will take an average person a few (being optimistic) to read all the relavent threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 And this is why I advise either moving your comfy chair some where between the fridge and the john, or if your live alone, just move the fridge in next ti the john. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young forge Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Anthony, I do see it crack and try to stop as I do, I even tried forge welding but I cannot get it to stop, like I posted I said that the file I used worked fine, but all the other leaf springs did not, it is most likely leaf springs have the cracks, but it has even happened on barstock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Oh come on guys you only need to pack a lunch a day working a full time job and maybe something for coffee breaks. A person needs regular breaks from research to remain fresh and receptive to knowledge. A little time at the anvil perhaps practicing things just learned is better than a nap. It's awful hard to beat a nap though.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redd1981 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 What type of steel bar stock did it happen on? As others have mentioned are you forging it hot enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Russell Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 All , I mentioned all this to " The Young forge " in chat less then 10 minutes " after " he posted this question in forumsI'm over flogging a DEAD Horse .Read the pinned items in forums . sick & tired of pointing people to where they should look & cant be bothered Dale Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Dale: Try what I'm trying, see if it helps. When I see a question like the OP I try REALLY hard not to tell them what I believe to be the true cause of the failures. I suggest they read the appropriate section(s), etc. as usual. Then I try to just ignore more questions from them or the equally ill-informed answers posted.What say mate, let's kick back and pop the top on a beer?Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Russell Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Jerry ( if I may call you by your Christian name )I gave " The Young Forge " all the info that as been mentioned above & even added " IFI " links to where he should look within " 10 minutes " of his first post in forumsHe said in reply ( which is really strange as at that time he'd only been a " full " IFI member for 12 minutes ) that he'd read everything bout blades in forums already . I then added IFI links to blade forum on IFI & included a link to Steve Sells book only to be told " I've read in 2 times already "You can't lead a horse to water , but you cant make him drink .Sadly with the " NOW " Gen it's " give me give me " & why should I research when you can tell me what I need ( if I can be bothered to read what you give me )No more " searching " for people who are too LAZY to do it them selves Dale Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Of course you may.I understand your frustration, I've let it get to me a couple times recently. I've decided to only try to help them once, if they're not interested so be it. On the other hand some of these kids are real gems and I'll go as far as I can to help them.The substance of my suggestion was to not give a snap if they're not interested, we can't give them what they're looking for. I'm going to read a book, watch TV, actually do what they think they want to, or something I enjoy instead. Let them learn from their own mistakes instead of mine.Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Russell Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Thank you mate , so you understand my point of view ." If " you wanna learn it do the research yourself , i'm not gonna do it for you , I had to find out this stuff myself , long before the WWW / internet came along Dale Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I sure do, I think it's a miracle parents don't drown their kids when they hit their teens. I look back at the way I was at that age and I probably wasn't much different. I know Dad sure wished I'd shut up often enough. Recently I got told to back away from the internet "dude" by a wise acre kid. That kid did a lot for me, I realized how defenseless he was in a word match so I ignored further posts.Failure is a much better teacher than we are, almost as good as pain. Let the kids learn it isn't worth us getting worked up about. Worse still we end up taking it out on other folk. Start a pun thread it's more productive. Well, something fun anyway.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young forge Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Red1981, im using spring steel and 1095 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young forge Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Dale Russell, first of all if you had a problem with me in chat, the mature thing would be to privately message me, not post it on a topic which is used for sharing of knowledge. I told you I had read Mr. sells book twice, because I have, yes it was very helpful, but it did not contain the answer to my problem. when we spoke in chat I acknowledged your tip about the metal needing to be hotter did I not? I even used it the next day. now if you have more to say to me, which is helpful and not worthless quarreling for both of us, please message me.TYF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redd1981 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) Frosty and Dale....please dont give up so easily on us new guys. All you guys here have helped me more than you know. Young forge.... sometimes apologizing for giving vague information and giving thanks to a ton of information already given to you goes alot further than being confrontational with the masters you are trying to learn from. Now lets get some non-vague answers from you.from what I am reading you have used files and leaf springs. but you also said you have used bar stock.Are you assuming your files are 1095 and treating them so?Are you assuming your leaf springs are 5160 and treating them so?What was the composition of the bar stock you had? did you order it as something specific or did you buy some mild welding steel from the hardware store?You said that you make knives all the time,how many have you made? stock removal or forged?Try to give very detailed answers so these guys can help you better.Have you answered about forging it too cold? What type of forge set up are you using? Does your forge not get hot enough to get your steel brighter than dull red? Any pictures? Edited June 6, 2015 by redd1981 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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