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I Forge Iron

Fuller Forging Techniques


Benton Frisse

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Hey gang! I've got a question... or maybe a few. 

 

I'm forging a longblade and I'm getting to the point of forging a fuller. I'd like to insert one down the center, maybe a half inch wide or so. However, I've been wondering on the easiest, most effective method of doing so? Would it be best to have the same size fuller in the hardy and on a handle, and just work the blade along it, almost pinching it on the center? 

 

Or is there an easier way to do so? 

Last question, I see people using what is like a Japanese sword smith's hammer. Have any of you used this and prefer this? I've been told it really helps cut down on hammer marks, but can't that be done with proper hammer control and technique? 

 

Thanks! 

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Easiest?  Have your apprentices forge it in and present it to you.

 

Using a $100,000 CNC mill is easiest under certain circumstances as is using a piece of quartzite rock under different circumstances.

 

Some folks use something like a smithing magician to hold the top and bottom swages in opposition.

 

The "japanese style" hammer has a centuries old history in Europe.  Latest uses was as cutler's hammers in Sheffield UK and as saw tuner's hammers.

 

Best and most traditional method of putting a fuller in an European blade is to have your apprentices strike while you hold the blade and top fuller properly over the lower fuller.  To get started I would suggest forging in a slight runnel for the bottom fuller to track on.

 

Now on japenese long blades there is a variation on a sen used to cut them in.

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then there is finding the correct diameter contact wheel for that fuller,  because even after you forge them in, they still need to be cleaned up, unless you plan to let it stay scaled and unfinished as some have been doing lately.

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How I wish I had an apprentice! Which, I guess I would be the apprentice in the shop, but my step dad doesn't forge blades, just ornamental blacksmithing, fabrication, etc. I had figured the top and bottom fuller was the best route, I'll just have to rig up some stands to hold the blade level on the fuller and do it myself! Just have to get a bit creative, that's what we smith's do, right? :D

Do you all find any advantage with using that style of hammer? Does it help? Or is it just a matter of preference? 

I do love the raw, scaled look, but my plan is to polish it up to about at least a 1200 grit emery cloth and then hit a cotton wheel with jewelers rouge (spelling?) like I had with my knives I've made so far. 

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Some people love them and some people don't.  They have been used for a wide range of times and cultures so they have some innate virtues; but not so overpowering that they remained in use everywhere as styles changed.

 

Get the top and bottom swages held and hold the blade yourself as you hammer!

 

The problem with the raw look on swords is that they were high end items in medieval times. 90+% of the people would have never even touched one so the "not finished look"  would be very odd indeed; like a million dollar car with no paint job today....

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Benton: A spring die/fuller is good for the one man shop but it's still an exercise in precision forging. Bladesmiths like Ric Furrer use a cross or straight pein over a bottom fuller and make it look easy but it took him I don't know how many years to earn the skill.

 

Frosty The Lucky

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Benton, if you seriously want to get into sword making you should think of getting hold of Ric Fuller,
He does weekend classes and he is a fountain of knowledge, spend a couple of hours and a couple of $$ and walk away with skills and info for life(sadly tool envy too)

Ian

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It is worth considering that a lot of original sword fullers are scraped in or ground , not all but a large % of them

 I have a selection of small grinding wheels and matching large thin ones to clean up fullers.

 In my experience putting a fuller into a sword blade before heat treatment can lead to all sorts of problems with warping as it is near impossible to get it perfectly central if you are making a double edged sword.

Swords are more of an exercise in grinding and straightening than forging, they may be born in the fire but they come into the sword they always wanted to be on the grinder.

 Other peoples experience may vary.

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Benton, if you seriously want to get into sword making you should think of getting hold of Ric Fuller,
He does weekend classes and he is a fountain of knowledge, spend a couple of hours and a couple of $$ and walk away with skills and info for life(sadly tool envy too)

Ian

 

Thanks, Ian! I'm friends with Ric on facebook, love seeing his work. And of course, one cannot forget his PBS special about the Ulfberht! One of my most cherished DVDs. I took your advice and checked on his classes, they're all full! Hopefully he posts the fall schedule soon. I would very much like to attend one of his classes. 

 

 

It is worth considering that a lot of original sword fullers are scraped in or ground , not all but a large % of them

 I have a selection of small grinding wheels and matching large thin ones to clean up fullers.

 In my experience putting a fuller into a sword blade before heat treatment can lead to all sorts of problems with warping as it is near impossible to get it perfectly central if you are making a double edged sword.

Swords are more of an exercise in grinding and straightening than forging, they may be born in the fire but they come into the sword they always wanted to be on the grinder.

 Other peoples experience may vary.

 

Basher, I had never realized that on long blades, so much work was done by grinding! Thank you for responding. I have access to a bench grinder and a few lathes, is that what type of grinder you use? I've already found what kind of hassle it is to try to straighten the blade I'm working on after trying to hammer the bevel. Whew! What a task! 

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  • 1 month later...

A good belt grinder will do you a lot of good. sadly, they are often quite expensive.
I made a fuller tool by cutting two pieces of round stock and welding a steel arm on each that I bolted loosely through a square bar that sits in my hardy hole. the arms hold the rounds directly on top of each other, you just have to insert your bar and pound away on the top round. what everyone above said is still true. is this the easiest way? I don't know, but it works with some practice. to clean the fuller up after you can get Cratex wheels and either mount on a buffer arm or in an angle grinder. cratex makes all kinds of shapes and sizes you just have to find what works for what you have. I also use scothbrite-like circle pads in an angle grinder but that is for lighter duty work.

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Here's what I use for grinding fullers. Simple construction consisting of my vice mounted on a pedestal and a cheap Harbor Freight die grinder mounted on an adjustable post. I made a flat surface that locks into the vice. The height of my tool can be adjusted accordingly. I just mount my blades on an angle iron with the center line marked out. in the picture the tool being used is a one inch carbide burr. there's a small learning curve with its use but it's easy to get the hang of.

J

post-7730-0-71020200-1405529818_thumb.jppost-7730-0-90006400-1405529887_thumb.jppost-7730-0-84804600-1405529964_thumb.jp

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