Jacob Nothstine Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Making a Froe from a leaf spring from a 1968 Bronco. Forged the eye first and it turned out great. Cooled the eye in water heated the other end up to flatten out the curve, second hit with the hammer snapped the eye off the leaf spring. Working the metal at orange temperature. Did dipping it in water make the metal brittle and snap? Started a second Froe with the other half of the spring, made the eye but ran out of time so I dip this spring in Canola oil to cool. Will the Canola oil cool the metal slower and keep it from getting brittle? Could I just let the metal air cool? Is the metal from the other spring any good or is it shot. Thanks, Jacob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Better read up on heat treating some more. But yes when you cooled it you made it brittle hard. Would have been better to just lay it on the ground for a bit til cool then shape the other end. Most springs are oil hardening. It very may have had micro fractures in it from it's previous life. just never know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 OUCH!---what the heck did you put hot medium to high carbon steel in water for? Yes quenching it in water would harden and make it brittle or even crack it just quenching it. This is something I cover in my first smithing class. As an example I have an elegant bowie blade forged from buggy spring that didn't harden quite enough in oil so I tried with water and now keep the pieces in my show and tell stuff to warn folks about the dangers implicit in heat treating items. WHY COOL IT except for letting it cool in air normalizing it??? Any quenching from critical temp makes steel harder and more brittle neither of which a froe needs. I sure hope you IMMEDIATELY drew temper on the piece you quenched in oil---around 500 degF at the minimum. Froes need to be tough not brittle. I also strongly suggest you research working higher carbon steels BEFORE working them! These are very beginner mistakes showing a total lack of understanding of what you are trying to do. As for the other piece. Any part of it that was at critical temp and quenched in water is extremely suspect and probably should not be used again. Any part that was not at critical temp when quenched should be fine. Except as mentioned for micro crack possibilities from a very old fatigued spring---at least I hope that Bronco had a long and lively life! Finding a spring shop and buying drops of the unused metal or finding a place that does lifts or lowering and getting tossed out un-or-lightly used springs is a better method. I work a lot of higher carbon alloys and generally will NOT have a bucket of water in the shop! The oil quench tank has a lid too. Most smithed work will just be cooled in air or tossed on the floor out of the way to cool. High carbon items will be left in the propane forge to anneal, left in wood ashes to anneal, hung from a wire to normalize or be properly heat treated. (which for knjves will be several normalizations---if the alloy profits from them, followed by a heat and quench IN THE PROPER MEDIUM!!! Followed *immediately* by drawing the temper!) COMPLETELY ignore all TV, Movies, fantasy books and games where the smith quenches everything in water every time he turns around! *Please* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Nothstine Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Thanks you for the information. The Bronco was used off road a lot by me. Replaces the leaf springs when I lifted it more. Going to scrap the leafs and get some better material. I think mild steel should work fine. I will research high carbon steel more before I use it again. Thanks, Jacob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Mild steel works fine for a froe. What Thomas said about quenching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Leaf spring is not a bad froe material---NORMALIZED; the place you had it lifted more might be able to help you with some springs off a new vehicle being lifted. I'd at least save the Bronco springs to make shop tooling from---good to hear it got used like a Bronco should be! Never liked all the 4WD vehicles that never got dirty I'd see in the parking lot at work.... Bout time I made my wife a kindling froe---I might even make it from a RR spike! (Thomas is using a RR spike for something----Inform the Media!!!!) She's been using a full sized one made from leaf spring that she had when we married going on 30 years ago this summer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Nothstine Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 I lifted the 1968 Bronco in my garage myself. Spent about 2 hrs trying to figure out how to get it out of the garage, It was to tall with the lift to get under the door. Had to let the air out of the tire to get it out of the garage. Sold the Bronco about 15 years ago to get a wedding ring for my wife. I think I was hanging onto the left springs just encase I wanted to build another Bronco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 My first set of wedding rings came out of $100 of scrap silver I bought at a pawn shop---back when it was US$5 a troy oz. I later replaced hers with a gold version of the ones were were wearing. I'm on my 4th silver ring---we still have the others they just wore out---tongs are rough on the silver especially when you plannish out the band thinning it when your hands put on muscle and need a bit more room in the ring. I'm slowing down though my current ring has been on almost a decade now and is still going strong. Bought it at the Frankfurt Germany fleamarket. So 4 rings in 30 years this August. Same wife though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hmm... I have a basket maker's froe that is pretty petite but still at least thrice as big as a RR spike! I'd like to see that little froe when you get it made Thomas! I use my basket maker's froe mostly for splitting shims on job sites. Pretty handy for that! I have split quite a bit of firewood using a large heavy froe and a small one hand sledge. Generally better than a wedge IMO... but dependent on individual log characteristics. I have a few old froes and a few newer ones... kind of a froe fetishist! The old ones are generally thicker at the back (struck) edge... mostly that is a good thing. The bevel is usually nearly the full width of the blades on the older ones too... also generally a good thing. For splitting shingles the older ones were usually fitted with a handle that curved slightly toward the blade... giving better split control. This feature just gets in the way when used for heavy splitting like firewood! It impedes the striking path! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Generally my wife will be splitting 3/4" thick scrap wood less than 6" long as kindling to start the wood stove; perhaps some 2x4 scraps so a petite version might work. If not then it can go on the wall and she can go back to the large version. I'm going to forge the bevel all the way across and put the small eye in right next to the head. Probably turn the handle from a piece of hickory I have from cutting down a sledge for one handed use... I prefer the hatchet myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakersteve Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 @Jacob - Not derail thread, but I am also the proud owner of an early Bronco - Leaf springs have hardened very well for me using canola oil around 120 degrees = Here is bronco and a machete made from an leaf spring off an early bronco I bought for parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Jacob the problem was using springs off a 1968 Bronco, the springs off a 1965 or 1972 bronco would have been OK but not off the 1968, it had to do with the distance of the moon from the equator and the postition of Saturn in relation to return axis of Alpha Centuri and the Dog star at the time they were crafted. Very hard to explain here in detail but in future stay with the 1965 or 1972 springs for sure, That, and don't cool spring steel out in water until you have a little bit more experience, let it cool out in still air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Nothstine Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Update Pick up some mild steel and gave the Froe another try. Turned out good, was filling the edge last night. Still have to make a handle, clean it up and coat it with something, thinking boiled linseed oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Jacob If you weld/bronze braze that gap where the eye is bent over I think that joint might only last one or two life times worth of use. That must have taken some doing to get that chunk of steel in to that shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Nothstine Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 I was going to have a friend stick weld it. But I don't think it's going anyplace soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madax Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 hello I use a froe most every day in my trade. I have a few in varied sizes. My largest was repaired and the eye was welded closed . Now every few years the blade breaks at the weld. I would try with it open and see, can always weld later. A froe takes a heck of a pounding. I use a 5 lb mallet made from 6" x 6 inch long aluminim shaft. Wear plugs! hope this helps Madax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I tend to think of welded froe eyes as more of an obsession than as a useful feature! If the socket metal is of decent thickness, the unwelded eyes give a slight spring fit for the handles that IMO gives superior service! I have some that are forge welded, some that are arc welded and some unwelded versions... all seem to work well, but if anything the unwelded versions are more trouble free than the others! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madax Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I agree fully. Welded not as effective in my application. I prefer tapered eye as in pick/mattock/ adze. If handle comes up through one simply pops it back in again and carrys on. I have hung my heavy froe with a 28" yew handle, 10" below the blade 18 up. This helps the leveridge when splitting 6' red cedar boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Nothstine Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 I will give it a try un-welded Thanks, Jacob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.